Questions about, in short lots of things

@davee 

Wow, what a way to start the day, haven't even had breakfast yet 🙂

I see the point being made that the questions so far have been general in nature and could therefore be classed as "research". But I think Ron is more concerned about where this might lead in the future and that's less clear but of even greater importance to me. For myself, knowing that he's a student is enough to prevent me from discussing anything more than generalities.

To me it's more about fairness. If everybody in Lucky's class had the prof's blessing to register on the forum, ask questions, get opinions and utilize any designs or information received, then I'd be all for it because EVERYBODY had an equal opportunity. But then you'd have to apply that to other classes, other universities and so on - to be really fair.

That doesn't seem to be the case here, his classmates are nowhere to be seen, heard or read. So, this seems to me to be inequitable. I suppose it all comes down to one's personal ethics and it seems like reliance on ethics has become pretty unpopular (or irrelevant) in today's world.

@lucky321 Sorry if I sounded too harsh. I want you to stay and keep us updated, just try and be sure your questions are for background rather than a conclusion. 

 

Posted by: @will

To me it's more about fairness. If everybody in Lucky's class had the prof's blessing to register on the forum, ask questions, get opinions and utilize any designs or information received, then I'd be all for it because EVERYBODY had an equal opportunity. But then you'd have to apply that to other classes, other universities and so on - to be really fair.

I am all willing to honor any guideline @dronebot-workshop or @codecage specifies.  if someone knows how to equitably define the red-line. 

If this is thesis work, there are no "other" students.  If this is a class assignment... yes, but what constitutes unfair usage.  One student researched and found this forum and others didn't.  It's not for the professor to tell them what to research.  That's part of getting educated. 

Do we filter out all non-english speakers, because we or they can't always get the gist?  Do we limit by age that are in college?  What about the retiree that went back to school for S&G and is pile driving through because he didn't tell us he was back in school.  Do we think he's honest just because he's as old as us?

Just how do we police this?  I say we can't and any attempt just excludes people from our forum like we did here with Lucky.

He clearly said:

Posted by: @lucky321

For now this is concept but I underastand I am I don't know even haha bachelor or engineer (I cant tell diffrance in Polish language this is like the same thing) Mechanics in field Aviation and Aeronautics so some knowlege is in head (not much but ther are bigger plans in my head)

I may be having trouble with the Reverse Polish Notation, but I read this as Aerospace Technician - Not Aerospace Engineer, not any engineer and certainly not Electrical or Comp Sci.  Are we implying he lying?  But no... we ostracized him because of:

Posted by: @lucky321

Thanks, this is project for my master degree so we will see how it works out.

Hi @will,

 I share your and Ron's (@zander) underlying concerns. 

 But  as I tried to explain, context is very part of  this.

I should say, my views are based largely on the UK ... apologies if other countries have very different schemes I am not aware of.

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A student, typically in their first degree/diploma, churning out pracs and assignments, as part of a class is one situation that is very open to such abuses.

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Post grad students are in a more complex world, especially with regard to Masters' degrees.

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Some Mxx degrees are largely taught syllabus-based courses, modelled loosely on the style of the final year of a Bxx degree, but typically, much more closely focussed in terms of breadth of content. Sometimes such courses are 'standalone', taking (maybe) 1 year full-time; in other cases, they are an 'extra' year tacked onto to a Bxx course. Again, your concerns are uppermost in my consideration as well.

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The other type of degree, which includes some Mxx s, and all PhDs (that I have come across), are principally by research. The student may attend a few taught sessions for specific skills, but all of their supervision and assessment is based on first hand research. In such circumstances, each student has an 'individual syllabus', and for the brighter candidates at least, its whole direction will often be substantially set by the student's own suggestions and interests, so the 'fairness' etc. across a class is not really an issue.

In the latter case. it  is the supervisors' and assessors' responsibility to ensure the student makes a sufficient orginal and personal contribution. (I am not pretending this is infallible ... merely that any failings and abuses are likely to be much wider than this forum can significantly affect, for good or bad.)

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I hope I am right in assessing that Lucky's situation is the latter case. That does not mean that such students and members of the forum do not have to be 'extra-careful', but I think it does give some flexibility.

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How the forum members guarantee they are not being spun a line by a plausible fraudster in the future, is more tricky.

I guess, the risk can only be reduced, not eliminated. I have never met Ron, I presume he is not canine as his photo suggests, so I cannot be sure 'he' is not a 20-something year old lady Olympic swimmer, who lives in Antartica .... Of course, I don't believe he is, any more than I think you (Will), continually walk around with a wooden club. wearing Flintstone-style shorts😀 We just have to use the available data, ask appropriate questions, and make the best judgements possible.

Personally, I think anyone who tries it, might get an award they do not deserve, but it will be obvious to those that work with them in the future, that they are just another type of cheap fraud. Hopefully, they will be treated accordingly! Personally, I would find that kind of reputation very hard/impossible to live with.

I am sure we can all think of a few 'fraudulent celebrities' that are happy to live in such a make-believe world, but I don't think this forum is going to fix that.

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Best wishes and take care my friends, Dave

Posted by: @inq

I apologize to everyone, including Ron for being up on my soapbox

It's all right to have strong opinions and to express them, that's how we open our minds to other viewpoints and maybe even broaden our own horizons.

But eventually, we all have to make our own judgement and live with that decision. The more facets we consider while making that decision, the better. So, by all means feel free to express your opinion.

@will This ongoing dialogue has been very eye-opening. 

@inq I don't understand what you are saying, but that is quite normal for me. I have told him to continue. Time will give us a better perspective.

@zander 

I don't think that this should disqualify Lucky321 from being a forum member and I have never advocated that. There is no abuse of the forum nor any member thereof. And I doubt if you (zander) believe that he should be removed from the forum (for the same reason).

As I see it,  everybody here is free to give or withhold replies to him about any subject that comes up. All that changed was that he was perceived to be a student and that changes some people's opinion about how his posts should be handled BY THEM. That decision will be made by each member in the privacy of their own skull, so a general consensus is unnecessary.

Posted by: @davee

Hi @will,

[snipt]

Of course, I don't believe he is, any more than I think you (Will), continually walk around with a wooden club. wearing Flintstone-style shorts😀

[snipt]

Don't be too sure of that, things have gone considerably downhill now that the dress code has been revoked 🙂

@will I agree 100% and if I appeared to be 'on a high horse', I apologize for that as well. I freely admit to be hyper sensitive due to my personal experiences. I doubt anyone cares, so I will only say I was a victim of the sort of behaviour I am complaining about.

I implore @lucky321 to return to the forum and accept my apology.

@zander 

Thanks Ron, I understand your way of thinking and don't want to argue anymore. I also should be more clear in my writing, what I want, but there is language barrier for me and some things can get a bit blurry or misinterpreted. Let's just leave it and let's live on.

@lucky321 I am happy to have you back and I hope jmy concerns were ill founded. May I suggest an experiment? Have you used google translate? You can enter what you want in your native language and have Google translate it to English. That might be usefull, or a horror story I don't know which. I will now try translating this post to Polish, let me know how it went.

@lucky321 Cieszę się, że wróciłeś i mam nadzieję, że obawy jmy były nieuzasadnione. Czy mogę zaproponować eksperyment? Czy korzystałeś z Tłumacza Google? Możesz wpisać to, co chcesz w swoim ojczystym języku, a Google przetłumaczy to na angielski. To może być przydatne, albo horror, którego nie znam. Spróbuję teraz przetłumaczyć ten post na polski, daj znać jak poszło.

Here is google translate Translate Here

@zander

Yea I know google translate, but I want to learn english haha. Not always have I possibility to use it. So if I write and speak more, I will be more proficient.

It worked pretty good in this case

@lucky321 

You might try to write in English first and then the same thing in Polish. Do a Polish to English translation to see how you compare with the Google translation?

@robotbuilder That is good idea too.