Questions about, in short lots of things

Hi @Lucky321,

As Ron has said, the forum is not a place to get 'free research for a degree'.

I personally don't mind trying to answer the occasional general questions, such as where to look and what to look for, as this is a fundamental part of research and learning.

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 In terms of your general strategy of estimating the data rate, and then looking for an RF solution that meets that demand, hopefully with a wide margin for the inevitable gap between 'best case' and 'reality', seems sound.

As I mentioned before, I recommend you do some 'field studies' with hand held transmitters and receivers, using representative antennas, etc., maybe transmitting dummy data and checking it is received without errors, to discover the 'true range', before committing to using it to integrate it into your plane or fly it. In other words, build your knowlege and experience a step at a time.

Do not believe a word of anyone's "advice", without carefully checking and demonstrating it to yourself!

Good luck, Dave

@davee Dave, if you want to direct a reply to someone without using the reply link, put an @ in front of their user id, not an &

@zander FYI @davee

Obviously he meant "and" ... but it's not clear if he meant bitwise or logical ...

@zander @davee

Yea sure. Yes that is it(atpl).

In those times it is very hard to discover or build something new. Idea isn't new I know that you can just buy ready RC drone, but I don't want things, like do it for me because I am lazy. I want to do something that I can be proud of that I done myself. Like I bought car and I build car. There is diffrance

Ofcourse I am not the best in programing and arduino, but here is chalange for me. I was always intrested in flying, building, designing things and using them. I don't need help like here is ready program, I just want hints where to look what is better and esspacialy why is better, experiences of people not their knowlage just human things. I'm still learning things and I'm not expert in any means for now.

But this project is like my idea which I want to made. I was looking everywhere if such thing exist in that form what I want to do, fortunetlny no. I can go ahead with this. Arduino is using very common parts, yet sometimes you can do something new. For my bachelor (enginner) degree I done headtracker in video. But there was so much work, I had to learn programming, remind myself how to design in 3D how to 3d print, how to control CNC milling maching, design PCB. It was like all things and beyond what I learned in Uni. Not every part is my own but where is border betweet my thing and someone thing. Arduino is made by someone, nrf too, code in most cases looks always the same you can't change things like that. The main thing is to connect everything to do something diffrent.

If you think, that I want to do nothing and wait for someone to get job done for me you are wrong. 

Ofcorse I check what is better for me to use. This is part of experimenting, road how you get where you standing now. Why this part not another. Why this frequency not higher or lower. And my Uni gladly accept devices and projects where student had to do things outside the box (Uni) not only teoretical esseys.

Someone can say things like better is that part and say it have longer range, okay it has. But there is multiple other things that have influence on choice. I have to check what I am using. Going with something familliar for me on start like nRF isn't bad? I want to have reference plane and join it with my work before.

In the end, If you think that I sholudn't ask okay, just wanted to get some feedback from more expirienced people. I am sure that I can do it myself but why I can't get hints. My questions were like loud thinking there are many things, many advanced things. And is there way to do it on devices which I have. There is? I'm looking for more informations and testing about it. No? Looking for other solutions. I know what I have to do to get this thing working. Other thing is that this is only part of my future degree. There is a lot work in front of me.

@lucky321 

In the end, If you think that I shouldn't ask okay, just wanted to get some feedback from more experienced people.

I am not sure why it was thought you were asking someone to do the researching for project.  It never hurts to ask for information.  Ask google ask a human read a book on the subject which is better and what's the difference? You have to get the information you need from somewhere.

@robotbuilder You are not sure why? Read his posts. Here is a sample of him asking for conclusions or opinions. Having authored numerous papers at IBM, if I made a decision based on someone else's opinion or conclusion and did not cite them I would be given the appropriate punishment for plagiarism at that time. Do you know that Universities spend a lot of money and resources on plagiarism software and staff. 

   1. Is nRF right for that thing and here I mean sending pockets of date? Main thing latency. In normal RC control ther are using Frequency Hopping which is more rebust I think?

     2. Transmission for every single value (like pich, roll etc.) It mean more things send, higher chance to receive. It is hard to explain what I mean haha. In short wards What is better faster safer rebust: ONE BIG POCKET with all the values or MANY POCKETS with single value. I think I am clear enough.

     3. Using frequency hopping with nRF? Is it even needed?

     4. Are there any transceiver that are compatible with AFHDS and arduino?

     5. Is there any way to connect arduino to aparature via DSC port?

     6. One more thing are there any servos like 360 or 270 degrees of rotation working like normal 180?

@zander I am just courius, well if it is such bad thing we can just end there, and I will do it by myself. Like I said before. I know what to do, and know how, but I wanted hints like is this right way of doing things? If my direction of thinking is right?

Well never saw that someone opinion is plagiarism but okay. We can finish now. 

@lucky321 Don't put words in my mouth. What I am talking about is when you are trying to determine if A is a better approach than B given certain conditions, you are expected to run tests to measure the results. If you just ask for a strangers opinion then that is a form of plagiarism. If however you ask here 'should I test NRF vs WiFi' then that is a fair question.

@zander - Frankly Ron, I think you need to get down off your high horse!  It is not your or anyone else's place here to police someone's ethics.  Anyone could very easily come on this forum and not mention a degree related reason.  I imagine many have and gotten away with it.  You can't know unless they volunteer.  Your ancient history antidotes of IBM purism are a thing of the past.  Although I share that past and would prefer that, it is not ever going to be that way again.  

I've offered introductory classes in my rural area at all levels, pre-teen through college level in software development, MPU development, IoT and/or robotics.  My ads were in the local paper, the community college's catalog, on-line catalog, Facebook and in flyers all over town.  All classes were/are FREE!  I got exactly one taker!  My only reflection on this sad state of affairs here in the United States is that I optimistically imagine, if I had done the same offering in the city I lived prior to retirement, I would have had to turn people away with a stick.  Sadly, that is only an optimistic fantasy.  

@lucky321 wants to learn and I applaud that and support that... period.  The fact that he has been quite forthcoming and is quite interested and had shown some of his work is far better than the narcissistic, self-image-enhancing, easy-path, flunk-yet-get-passed-on students I see here.  If you think any of your advice is so earth shattering worthy of thesis material, then simply don't offer it!  Publish it yourself!

Normally, I have agreed with your position on this topic, but it was obvious in those prior posts someone wanted us to GIVE them the circuit, FIX their code for them, GIVE them the code.  @lucky321 has done none of those things.  Considering the advice on this forum has been a mixed bag in my experience, he'll have more trouble finding the diamonds in the rough than if he had only done his research on the Internet.  As we all know... the Internet never lies and is perfect in its purely un-biased representation.  🙄 

Frankly, I hope @lucky321 continues to post his questions and shows his results.  I believe he and this forum will be the losers if he leaves.  

Hi Ron @zander , @lucky321, @robotbuilder, @will, @inq,

  I agree with Ron (@zander), that we should be careful not to write someone else's paper or thesis for them. In the relatively short time I have been on this forum, it is clear, a few attempts have been heading in this direction.

From what I have seen so far, I see little evidence of that in Lucky's case, whilst agreeing with Ron that some clarification and considerable care is needed.

From my viewpoint, asking if "Tech A is likely to be better Tech B" is unlikely to result in significant plagiarism ... at least not if the assessor's are doing their job ... because simply saying "I think Tech A is better is better than Tech B", without justifying it and providing evidence, including the source of that evidence, should be discounted as valueless speculation that anyone could generate, with or without copying it from someone else. Thus, even if it is not classed as plagiarism, it should certainly be relegated to 'meaningless waffle', and not a positive contribution to the body of work.

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Of course, in many academic scenarios, maybe a critical discussion on a well-known historical event or piece of literature, then I am sure plagiarism will be used by some students to generate 'a quick essay', and possibly a substantial part of a larger thesis. I was always hopeless at such things at school, but unless you able to research original artifacts, etc., which is probably only practical at PhD and above levels, I imagine it is very difficult to come up with something that is completely new. I am grateful this forum is not in that scenario. 😀 

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In the scope of the questions that Lucky has asked and Ron quoted, then I partly agree with Ron, feeling he could have done a bit more Googling first, but I am less worried about plagiarism, as I would doubt if the answers we are likely to provide could substantially form the basis of a Master's thesis ... at least not one that wouldn't be rejected for obvious lack of original content.

Nevertheless, I think this is a very sensitive area, with very thin and and fuzzy lines of demarcation.

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To Lucky, I would say, if you are thinking of asking a question related to your forthcoming Masters or similar, then please ask yourself, is this a substantial question in the terms of the work I intend to present? i.e. Am I going to present the answers to this question as 'my own work and contribution to my thesis?'

If so, then obviously there is a conflict.

If not, then ask yourself, can I find the answers myself, by Googling, reading books and papers, etc.?

If you can, then in general, I think you should. That is what research is all about, and the more practice you get, the more competent you will become. Getting a Masters is not really about the kudos of a title ...  it is a journey and opportunity to get new skills ... otherwise you might as well buy a fake one on the Web from a University of frauds for a few hundred dollars.

However, some questions, including "little" practical details of how to do something, or I have tried looking for X and failed .. can you offer any pointers?, which never make the learned literature, and will not feature strongly as thesis content, but can mean the difference between a successful project and a failed one.

We can all get stuck on the smallest and most trivial points, like not spotting we have typed "=", when we know and mean "==" in a program. (Yes, I know that has been explored fully in other threads!)

I think these sorts of questions are valid for the forum, and help to enrich all our experience.

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Just my ponderings ... others may justifiably disagree, hopefully calmly & politely.

Best wishes and good luck "Lucky" with all of your ventures ... may you have a long and successful career. Dave

@davee @inq @zander

I don't want to get my paper writen by someone else. I underastand what you mean. I just asking questions which are bodering me. There is diffrence when you read something in paper or watch film and get answer from man. Everything have pros and cons. For now I'm arming myself with knowlage from papers, films, your answers. I don't have all the parts I need to even start now. When I start I want to do it with highest level of prepernes to avoid as much as possible bottleneck (there will be always some). 

If I want easy paper why I'm taking so much effort to look for answers in discipline that I'm not studying in? Why not just go to promoter (right word? idk) and get ready title to my paper and materials.

Like with my enginner degree paper, everyone was like: Why the hell are you doing this? It is too ambitious. You can even do that? Those word wasn't only from my friend but also teachers. Everyone was interested in this, but don't want to do enything with it. In the end I done everything myself based on datasheets and other things. Learn from zero how to write code which works, ofcourse I used some ready codes from internet but autors were mentioned in my paper. If I know I can get things ready from internet or get ready paper from promoter why boder to ask people?

This project is here becouse, I want to get hints what is better or worse, get disscusion, learn. But well if I have to be called by name that I'm doing plagiarism well we are finish here. 

Next post will be about that how I ended up entire project with fotos and documentation in circa 1 year.

Thanks for all answers and hints.

I whish you all luck and health

@lucky321

@lucky321 wrote: This project is here becouse, I want to get hints what is better or worse, get disscusion, learn. But well if I have to be called by name that I'm doing plagiarism well we are finish here. 

Next post will be about that how I ended up entire project with fotos and documentation in circa 1 year.

Thanks for all answers and hints.

I whish you all luck and health

Sometimes people get the wrong idea or misread the original post - I like others, do not see a problem with the questions you put forward, and only see them as a part of the research process.

Please don't be discouraged in posting here in future, and good luck with  your project.

Cheers

@inq I agree I am somewhat more sensitive about the plagiarism but I totally disagree with your concept of turning a blind eye.

Posted by: @zander

@inq I agree I am somewhat more sensitive about the plagiarism but I totally disagree with your concept of turning a blind eye.

Mentioning it once was called, but not badgering! Actually, I've reread his posts and the closest he came to asking for any shortcut (but still not near plagiarism) was:

Posted by: @lucky321

I was looking around and there are many LoRa transceivers and I dont have experience with them. Can you recommend one? Like which frequency is best for that stability and sure thing things I didn't expect.

He already said, it's a proof of concept to make it fly within a relatively short range (<100m).  From his short video, it should be obvious his study and he actually said mechanical/aerospace technician is more about the mechanical/control aspects than the radio details.  The nRF, LoRa are merely footnotes and might be in a parts list of zero relevance to his degree!

There is nothing here that would ever have been considered plagiarism worthy... either asked or replied.  He is simply creating a seat based interface to a UAV!  It has been done a thousand times before and he could copy one completely off the Internet if so desired.  You focused on the words "for my master degree" and went all non-linear on him. 

The point is moot... you got your way.  

Posted by: @lucky321

This project is here becouse, I want to get hints what is better or worse, get disscusion, learn. But well if I have to be called by name that I'm doing plagiarism well we are finish here. 

Next post will be about that how I ended up entire project with fotos and documentation in circa 1 year.

... and we are the lesser for it.  

Hi @lucky321,

  I am sorry if I have upset you. I hope you understood that I did not think that any of your questions constituted plagiarism.

 In the past, (and probably again in the future), there have been requests that amounted to 'please provide me  with the answer to my diploma/degree.'

I do not believe that was not your intention, but sometimes it is very difficult to distinguish.

My suggestions were only cautious to protect all our reputations; but especially yours. as you still have a career to build, while many on this forum can only look back on theirs. Remember, the more successful you are, the more you will attract 'competitors' who will look for an excuse to try to show you are not as good as you appear. It takes years to get a good reputation .. but only seconds to destroy it. You appear to be very bright, and hence, you need to be demonstrably 'super-clean'.

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Please try to understand, unfortunately, the dividing line is thin, and fuzzy. Your project is so wide, you ended up asking several questions, each of which could be the basis of academic dissertation. Taking all of your communications into account, it becomes more apparent that they you were just looking for some guidance as to which topics to follow up. This shows that the dividing line depends as much on context as on the questions themselves.

The context of a chat by the coffee machine with someone you know, is much easier to discern than the same words over a forum or email with someone you have never met. And for most people, human nature says, if you don't know someone, treat them kindly, but remember that while most people are really nice, sadly that is not guaranteed and they maybe a potential threat, so be cautious until you get to know them better.

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Whether you decide to continue to participate in the forum is your decision. Personally I hope you do, as I think everyone benefits.

Either way, the very best of luck in the future. You deserve all the success you can get.

Dave