Object Oriented techniques - Example 2 - Display Manager

Posted by: @byron

Posted by: @zander

Of course COBOL is still dominant in many business environments,

There must be a lot of legacy code still around, as for amusement I google the top 10 programming languages, and whilst I was at it I google COBOL.  It seems all the old COBOL'ers are fading away and there is now a shortage of COBOL skills and its back in demand!

For anyone interested the top 10 programming languages are reportedly 

1. Python
2. Java
3. JavaScript
4. C#
5. PHP
6. C/C++
7. R
8. TypeScript
9. Swift
10. Objective-C

What the heck is R 🤔.  No, I don't really want to know, I'm sticking with what I know works for me. 😎 

Yeh, if you rate languages based on popularity, I'd agree, although VBA would have to be on the list at some point. I refuse to use non-type safe languages, which drops Python, Javascript and PHP out for me. I've used Java, and I'm overjoyed it is in the rear view mirror, as it excels at making some simple things hard, particularly in crafting a UI - and the stock controls result in a UI that is, well, ugly, lol.

R is used for Data analysis, and I group it in with Stata, Matlab, and other analytical languages (Python plays here too) and it is fine for building analytical scripts.

Typescript is a type safe version of runtime scripting languages like javascript, and I applaud it's efforts to make scripting type safe.

No experience with Swift.

Ruby gets some traction in Ottawa because Shopify uses it.

Posted by: @zander

@frogandtoad I remember a similar example when I was first introduced to OOP. The question I had then was 'What has this to do with payroll, AR, AP, GL etc' Still a valid question, but of course programmers code much more interesting applications today and I do see some applicability but still question how much is gained in $ coding like this.

The gains in coding in OO in financial and clerical type apps depends on the complexity of the app. I wrote an entire Bill of Materials / material and inventory ordering system using Excel VBA, with classes (VBA supports most OO features) because the complexity merited it, but don't typically spin up classes in Excel, lol.

@zander SQL / Relational databases don't tend to handle recursive constructs like trees (e.g. Bill of Materials) and graphs (e.g. circuits, network topology) efficiently. You can go with post-relational DBs, but you'll often find algorithms that process such data are implemented using data structures are best handled with OO constructs. 

Posted by: @zander

@byron Of course COBOL is still dominant in many business environments, almost all ATM transactions, about 45% of other banking. Although I debugged other peoples COBOL, I never learned it and never wrote a complete program. I did add/modify a few lines at 3AM when troubleshooting a major financial system and the regular programmer was away but that probably only happened 2 or 3 times in my entire life. Once with the president looking over my shoulder because the next day was profit day.

I consulted to a team that still worked in COBOL on an IBM (or maybe Unisys) mainframe as recently as 15 years ago - pretty sure they are still on it. I was helping with some of their management planning and architectural evolution - didn't have to touch the code (yay! *shudder*).

@binaryrhyme

Posted by: @binaryrhyme

Posted by: @zander

@frogandtoad I remember a similar example when I was first introduced to OOP. The question I had then was 'What has this to do with payroll, AR, AP, GL etc' Still a valid question, but of course programmers code much more interesting applications today and I do see some applicability but still question how much is gained in $ coding like this.

The gains in coding in OO in financial and clerical type apps depends on the complexity of the app. I wrote an entire Bill of Materials / material and inventory ordering system using Excel VBA, with classes (VBA supports most OO features) because the complexity merited it, but don't typically spin up classes in Excel, lol.

Who didn't love Visual Basic?
I coded classes with it for GUI's and also in Excel VBA!

Many people underestimate the power of Excel and VBA - I coded VBA to connect to various databases, pull the data to produce awesome pivot tables 🙂

I still use VB6 for super fast prototyping... why not?

Cheers

@binaryrhyme

Posted by: @binaryrhyme

@zander SQL / Relational databases don't tend to handle recursive constructs like trees (e.g. Bill of Materials) and graphs (e.g. circuits, network topology) efficiently. You can go with post-relational DBs, but you'll often find algorithms that process such data are implemented using data structures are best handled with OO constructs. 

Btw... I also worked for big financial firms for many years, and supported applications and databases directly. I specialized in Oracle, using C++ and PL/SQL... Oracle is an OOP database, even more so these days!

Cheers

@robotbuilder

Posted by: @robotbuilder

Posted by: @byron

Posted by: @zander

Is it not a good idea to be able to point a newbie to such a section of the forum and simply say read file xyz then come back if you have further questions?

I do agree with that suggestion, but I do think that tutorial examples are best left without without an abundance of observation postings in the same post not to confuse the original posters intention.  

So in that respect I'm thinking along the lines of github were there is a code section and an issues section where observations , questions and comments can be put, and the original poster can choose to answer, amend the code, or ignore as is seen fit.

Stand alone tutorials are not suitable to a forum of this kind IMHO. You cannot even edit the first post, as is possible in some other forums, as a single source of information as a project is updated.

 

I see your point, but that shouldn't detract from any member wanting to help out other members to take the next C++ step from newbie to intermediate level, should it?  If you or anyone else do not have any interest in such topical discussions, then you are all free to ignore such forum discussions/threads, aren't you?

Also note... these types of discussions generate enormous feedback on this forum, as I'm sure you, Bill and everyone else acknowledge that there is a great interest in such topics.  If you and others are not interested, then that's OK, and it's not hard to stay away and ignore such posts that people like to discuss when you come across them, is it?

I don't understand you detractors... this is educational content... if it's not your thing, then just ignore it please.

Cheers

Posted by: @frogandtoad

I see your point, but that shouldn't detract from any member wanting to help out other members to take the next C++ step from newbie to intermediate level, should it?

Whilst I think you may have got the point that a forum post was not the best medium to present tutorials (as I will call the sort of posts made in the OO example posts),  you then seem to extrapolate this to think some are detracting those who wish to post tutorials  

I think good tutorials are welcome but consideration as to the best medium within which to present them so as to preserve their on-going benefit to all was the moot point.   

The critical point is the ability to amend the tutorial if and as necessary, but also the ability to point a user in the direction of a document, rather than regurgitate the same old will also be of value.   If some comments means you are minded to amend you tutorial how will you do that?  Comments and questions on a tutorial 'document' could be discussed in the forum without obfuscating the original tutorial, but the document owner could amend and expand as required to ensure it remains a valued source of information.

My suggestion was that github could be ideal for this, but for those who are not familiar a github tutorial is required.  As a professional programmer I expect you are very familiar with github so maybe this would be a good subject for your next tutorial.  Now where should this tutorial be posted 🤔 

@frogandtoad Heh. I never used Oracle. I worked in an Entity-Relationship (ER) Db/language for about 6 years in the late 80s and early 90s, specializing in dev tools and code generation (about halfway through, the developer bought my tools and hired me), and when I returned to needing a DB again in the early 2000s, I wrote a reflection driven dynamic OO wrapper in C# around MS SQL Server... I don't enjoy working in SQL directly, lol. Glad to hear they've moved into a post-relational model. 😉

@binaryrhyme  Totally agree with you about VBA.. a very powerful language, and far easier to us than C++, at least for me that is...lol

I've been using  VB and VBA since 1995, when I started writing my Control valve Asset management program.. Before that it was database programs like Alpha4 (windows ver), dBase (dot prompt), Foxpro, then finally MsAccess, utilizing VB, and VBA...I'm starting to get the hang of C++ now, so thanks to you, Ron, Will, and FrogandToad, I'm learning much more..looking forward to more debates about coding  methods, and the idiosyncrasies that come with it..although, for the newbies, it's probably way to far over their heads to comprehend what seems simple and basic to you..learning programming is a one step at a time process..as a self taught person in programming, I know this all to well.

All of that said.. some of us are really enjoying reading the comments, so just keep it coming..I suspect that other that are just not posting comments, are taking it in as well..

regards,

LouisR

@inst-tech The coding techniques / fave language debates can reach the fervor of religious zealotry, lol - the discussions can be insightful, and I am glad you are finding them so. 🙂

Posted by: @binaryrhyme

 coding techniques / fave language debates can reach the fervor of religious zealotry

Make that WILL REACH 🙂

@frogandtoad 

I don't understand you detractors... this is educational content... if it's not your thing, then just ignore it please.

Actually the posts were mainly oldies reminiscing about their programming careers which is fine the forum is ideal for that.  I never said there was anything wrong with educational examples of programming all I said was the forum wasn't really designed for tutorials.  I was the first to respond with my own attempt to use the LED OOP example so clearly it was my thing.  Most beginners I think are interested in c++ for the Arduino or Python for the RPi as this forum is really about programming hardware.  Showing tutorial examples of using OOP for this is useful for anyone that wants to add to their programming skill set.

That there are programming experts on the forum is a great asset.

So does that clear thing up?  I wasn't critical of the posts I only observed that the forum is not well suited for go to tutorials on programming.  This doesn't mean member's posted tutorials aren't useful or interesting.

@byron 

Posted by: @frogandtoad

I see your point, but that shouldn't detract from any member wanting to help out other members to take the next C++ step from newbie to intermediate level, should it?

Whilst I think you may have got the point that a forum post was not the best medium to present tutorials (as I will call the sort of posts made in the OO example posts),  you then seem to extrapolate this to think some are detracting those who wish to post tutorials

Indeed, I do feel that some people are acting as detractors for those who wish to post C++ OOP tutorials here - Personally, I welcome all tutorials (C++ OOP or otherwise), because that encourages engagement, and that is how we all learn - This forum even has a category for such topics, doesn't it?

Posted by: @byron

I think good tutorials are welcome but consideration as to the best medium within which to present them so as to preserve their on-going benefit to all was the moot point.   

I think the collective members of DBWS can decide for themselves of what constitutes a good tutorial, via passionate debate and discussion, don't you?  That is my point - If members are not interested in such topics, then as I said previously, they are free to ignore the thread / topic, and allow those who wish to discuss and lurk with interest, participate without discouragement.

Posted by: @byron

The critical point is the ability to amend the tutorial if and as necessary, but also the ability to point a user in the direction of a document, rather than regurgitate the same old will also be of value.   If some comments means you are minded to amend you tutorial how will you do that?  Comments and questions on a tutorial 'document' could be discussed in the forum without obfuscating the original tutorial, but the document owner could amend and expand as required to ensure it remains a valued source of information.

Though not ideal, I don't see this as a critical point, such to the point that it discourages people from posting tutorials here.

Posted by: @byron

My suggestion was that github could be ideal for this, but for those who are not familiar a github tutorial is required.  As a professional programmer I expect you are very familiar with github so maybe this would be a good subject for your next tutorial.  Now where should this tutorial be posted  

Actually, I have no issues with people uploading code to a github site and providing links to it.  Since it's  is your idea / suggestion however, I'd be more than happy for you provide an account and tutorial on github for me and others to post our code there, and link to it from here.

Sounds like a good deal to me 😉

@robotbuilder

Posted by: @robotbuilder

@frogandtoad 

I don't understand you detractors... this is educational content... if it's not your thing, then just ignore it please.

Actually the posts were mainly oldies reminiscing about their programming careers which is fine the forum is ideal for that.  I never said there was anything wrong with educational examples of programming all I said was the forum wasn't really designed for tutorials.  I was the first to respond with my own attempt to use the LED OOP example so clearly it was my thing.  Most beginners I think are interested in c++ for the Arduino or Python for the RPi as this forum is really about programming hardware.  Showing tutorial examples of using OOP for this is useful for anyone that wants to add to their programming skill set.

That there are programming experts on the forum is a great asset.

So does that clear thing up?  I wasn't critical of the posts I only observed that the forum is not well suited for go to tutorials on programming.  This doesn't mean member's posted tutorials aren't useful or interesting.

 

My apologies... it was a generalised comment based on some negative or discouraging posts building towards that narrative, and not focused on anyone in particular.

Thanks for clearing it up.

Cheers