Need help with my addiction!

Posted by: @robo-pi

It loads and will allow you to create cells.   But it won't execute Python code. 

That was exactly what I found.  Hence I followed the log and then googled the error message and found a recent similar open issue on the Jupyter github. (that did not appear to be Rpi based).   I also noted, with some alarm, the amount of serious open issues there were, and I think that the Jupyter project may be going into decline.

Posted by: @robo-pi

Strangely today I'm not feeling well.

I hope you get to feel better soon (no jokes about eating too much raspberry pie), but seriously you must not get so carried away to miss a good nights sleep.  Any more of this and you may have to get a wife to keep you disciplined. 

Posted by: @pugwash

"What do you need another computer for?"

This is actually a question worthy of consideration.  I currently have seven computers that I use as "desktop computers"

1. Four Laptops
2. Two Jetson Nanos
3.  And now this Rpi 4\

In addition to those 7 desktop configurations I also have 8 Raspberry Pies (3) Zeroes, (4) A+ and (1) B+.  I run all of these headless, or as automatons.  In other words, they don't have their own keyboards, mouse or monitors.   I treat them as genuine SBCs for robotics and/or other automation projects. 

If we're going to consider Arduino, STM32, and other microcontrollers, I must have close to 50 of those chaps laying around.  Many of which are already programmed and connected to hardware for projects that I don't want to have to keep disassembling every time I want to try something new.   So yes, I have about 100 breadboards too. No wonder I'm financially destitute. 🤣 

I'm making good used of all of them.   Obviously, I could have used any of the previous six desktop configurations to do this Semantic AI experiment, but I really like having a dedicated computer just for that experiment.  There are many reasons for this.  Some may seem trivial, but for me they are well worth the effort.

Having each category of interest on a dedicated computers is convenient in that I can set up the desktop specifically for the project under consideration having all the notes for the project, and related materials at my fingertips on the desktop and not getting things confused with other projects.  I also believe that a computer runs faster when it's only running a single dedicated project.  Especially when using these SBCs.   A single project typically doesn't take up a lot disk space for the software and date it requires.  Whereas if you had ten projects on a single computer you'd have a lot of unrelated "junk" on the computer that is taking up space and resources that you aren't currently using for the single project you happen to be working on.

Finally, and this is a biggie for me.  If something should go wrong and I crash the entire system I don't love EVERYTHING.  I only lose the specific project I was working on.  So that's another reason for doing it this way.  Although, this can also be done with these SBCs by just having dedicated SD cards for each projects.  And that is one thing that's a bummer about these SBCs.  The SD cards can often be quite difficult to swap out, especially when the SBC has been enclosed in a case.

But yeah, I like having these dedicated systems.  I'd rather have it this way than to just have all my projects jammed onto a single computer.  It's probably more of a personal preference type of thing, but it's just the way I like to do things.

Posted by: @pugwash

And I just took my 13 year-old Audi in for its two-year roadworthiness test, and I know the brakes need replacing and expect to be about €2000 poorer by this evening!

Yeah, that's about right, but way more than it needs to be.  I have 2003 Dodge Caravan.  It needed all new brakes, including new calipers in the front, and even some of the hydraulic brake lines were leaking.  I called to get an estimate, it would have been about $2500 to have it repaired.  No way am I paying that much!  I only paid $300 for the van!  It's in really great shape other than the brakes too.

In any case, I bought all the parts myself for a grand total of $400.  Including pads, shoes, calipers, and brake line tubing.   I did all the work myself, and now I have a repair that it most likely even better than what I would have gotten for the $2500.  Of course you can only get by with the $400 repair if you have the tools to do it.   Fortunately I have the tools.  Although there were no expensive specialty tools.  Just your normal wrenches, sledge hammer, chisel and vice-grips for removing stubborn bolts. 🤣 

It feels great to have all new brakes for only $400.  More than I paid for the whole van!  But well worth it.  The rest of the van is in pretty good shape.   So now I have $700 in the van instead of $2800.  I'm still a couple vans ahead of the game. 😎 

I guess this means I can go out and buy $2100 worth of Jetson Nanos huh?  Since that's what I saved on the van repair.  I never thought of that.  That sounds like a good excuse. 🥂 

Posted by: @byron

I also noted, with some alarm, the amount of serious open issues there were, and I think that the Jupyter project may be going into decline.

Gee I hope not.  I really like using Jupyter Notebook for quick experimentation.  Although I could probably do it just as easily using Geany, Thonny or some other Python IDE.  But Jupyter is nice in that it just runs the code and displays the output beneath the cell you're working in.  So it's a little quicker for trying things out.  You don't need to keep launching a program and exiting out of it.  So it's a nice little tool.  I wonder if the problems were introduced in a newer version?  Maybe I've  been using an older version that doesn't have those problems?  I'll have to look into that.  Maybe I can find the older version and just use that. 

Posted by: @byron

I hope you get to feel better soon (no jokes about eating too much raspberry pie), but seriously you must not get so carried away to miss a good nights sleep.  Any more of this and you may have to get a wife to keep you disciplined. 

I'm 70 years old, the last thing I need is a wife telling me what I'm not allowed to do.   I don't think that would go over too well.   That might have worked to some degree when I was 20 and my mind was still open to thinking about things other than programming robots.

At 70 years old you tend to lose interest in those "other things". 🤣

Posted by: @robo-pi

You don't need to keep launching a program and exiting out of it. 

Just for trying out Python code lines surely you just need a REPL, though of course Jupyter lets you keep some notes, graphs and all that.  Although it seemed like a good idea and I did have a go at it an installed it on my main development computer, but in truth, apart from a first flush on interest I have not used it for several years.   I expect your use would be rather more advanced than mine of course

Posted by: @robo-pi

I'm 70 years old, the last thing I need is a wife telling me what I'm not allowed to do

Well... make the tea, clean the house, cook your meals (not PC so apologies to any female DroneBot members, though I get the impression its an old mans club) so maybe not so bad?   Nah, the wrong one will only be after your assets, and may do you in to get at them.  I hate the though of all those Pi's getting tipped into the bin if a wife see's to your demise, so best forget that idea 😀 

Posted by: @byron

Well... make the tea, clean the house, cook your meals

😍 Where is she?  Tell her to come on over ASAP! 🤣 

Posted by: @byron

 I hate the though of all those Pi's getting tipped into the bin if a wife see's to your demise, so best forget that idea

That's where they are all headed eventually.   Even the people who  made them are anxiously trying to make them obsolete ASAP.  Apparently they don't even care much for the longevity of their own products.  All they want to do is replace them with something new.

I Got a Desktop with Ubuntu on the Raspberry Pi. 😎 

I didn't get to play with the Pi until 11:00 pm.  I had already installed Ubuntu 18.04, but it didn't come with a desktop.  I downloaded the desktop tonight.  It took me until 2:30 to download and install it.

But it's up and running now.  In fact, I'm making this post from the FIrefox browser on the Pi that came with Ubuntu.

So one tiny step for man, and one huge leap for the Raspberry Pi.

Tomorrow I'll see how well Ubuntu does with all the other software I want to install.

And now it's almost 3:00 AM and I'm only just now going to bed again.   Too many hobbies!

@robo-pi 

did you use the ubuntu mate desktop for the Raspberry Pi as per this link raspberry-pi ?  I see it does not mention Rpi 4 so I wonder if indeed you did use this image and therefore it would work on the Rpi 4

Posted by: @byron

@robo-pi 

did you use the ubuntu mate desktop for the Raspberry Pi as per this link raspberry-pi ?  I see it does not mention Rpi 4 so I wonder if indeed you did use this image and therefore it would work on the Rpi 4

No, I did not use that link.

I first when to this site to and chose to download Ubuntu 18.04 64bit for Rpi 4

Install Ubuntu on Raspberry Pi

Then on the page where you actually download the image file they offer you 3 options to install a desktop:

Ubuntu 18.04 64 bit image

If you scroll down on that page it offer three different desktops to install, x, l, or k

I have no idea what the difference is between these so I just installed the firs one "x".

It took over 2 hours to download and install just the desktop.   That's probably partly due to my slow Internet speed.   I have no clue how desktops "l' or "k" would  be different.

This "x" desktop seems to be okay, but it is quite a bit different from the Ubuntu Desktop that came with the Jetson Nano image.

In any case, it's up and running for now. We'll see how it goes.  I'll be starting to load software on it later tonight.  Right now I have "real life" outdoor work to do. 🤣 

I still have the original Raspbian on the original SD card.  So I might go back and play with that again at some point just to see if it's possible to sort that all out.  But right now I want to try this Ubuntu and see if it goes without a hitch like it did on the Jetson Nanos.

@byron

Just for the record.  I'm currently installing numpy, matplotlib, Jupyter, etc, on Ubuntu.   I actually ran into a similar problem where the modules weren't being recognized after the installation.   What I discovered is that you actually need to specify Python3 when doing the installation.  Otherwise it defaults to installing these things on Python2.

So that was probably the same problem I was having with Raspbian.    Fortunately I saved the Raspbian image SD card.  So I'll be able to go back over there and retry everything on Raspbian later.   It will probably work just fine then.

But that's ok, I wanted to try out Ubuntu on the Raspberry Pi anyway.  So now I'll have both Ubuntu and Raspbian.   I'm thinking the Raspbian might actually come in handy at some point when using GPIO features, etc.   Only because the Raspbian was embraced by that Raspberry Pi makers.   So we'll see how that goes in the future.  It looks like I'll soon have both systems up and running.   That will be aright.  I'll just have two different systems on two different SD cards that's all.

I'm only just now installing all the Python features.  I'm running a sawmill out back in between downloads. 😊 

Hopefully I'll get everything installed and make some lumber too!  Beautiful day outside here!

@byron

I spoke too soon.  It's still refusing to install properly.   But at least the lumber job is going well. 😊 

I just came in and saw that the installation crashed and it still reports that it can't find numpy, etc.

I recall that on the Jetson Nano there was a trick that Paul McWhorter used.  If I recall he used a special installation method and had to install it first, then uninstall it to get it to work.  Don't ask why, it's the weirdest thing in the world.  But it worked.

So I'm going to go take a look at that installation process again and try it on the Pi to see if it works here.

I could have made a video on Semantic AI by now! 

All I want to do is get Python up and running.  Sheesh!   A person wants to use Python but instead of programming in Python they have to spend their entire life just trying to install it.   What a nightmare!

I know I'll get this sorted eventually.  But how many precious weeks will have passed by in the interim?   It shouldn't be this difficult to set these tools up.

So it looks like I'm back at square one again.  I'm going to try Paul McWhorter's method for the Jetson Nano and see if that does the trick.

@robo-pi

python is a bit cursed with the muddle of python2 and python3 but whilst python2 may come in handy for some old programs really you should forget it and just use python3.

The main muddle is that just typing python defaults to python2.  Also the pip package installer defaults to installing for python2.   So you could just always use python3 and pip3 to ensure that you don't get the versions muddled up.  But you can also easily change what version the python and pip commands activate by adding the following to your .bashrc file which is in your home directory.

so in your home directory - nano .bashrc

and add the following to the end of the file.

alias pip=pip3

alias python=python3

Save and reboot then just typing python will activate python3.   You can still type python2 or python3 as well to explicitly bring up the desired version.   As time goes on you may end up with several more versions of python3 installed so you may end up typing python3.5 or python3.7 etc but you can amend your alias so that typing python brings up you desired version.

And don't forget the use of virtual environments as previously mentioned, they are so easy to set up and use.

Also remember numpy did not work for me when I first installed it.  Packages are changing and being updated all the time and sometimes the package installers miss some dependencies.  I think this was the case with numpy and installing the extra package I mentioned meant it could then be imported into a python3 program without error.

And whats this mamby pamby sawmill, you should be swinging your large axe and running like hell when the tree falls the wrong way.

Posted by: @byron

And don't forget the use of virtual environments as previously mentioned, they are so easy to set up and use.

I'll definitely look into that.  Although I haven't had to do that on Windows 10 or the Jetson Nano.  They've both just been working normally.

Posted by: @byron

python is a bit cursed with the muddle of python2 and python3 but whilst python2 may come in handy for some old programs really you should forget it and just use python3.

That's what I've been doing.   But since I typically run from an IDE or Jupyter Notebook there's no need for me to type in Python3 since I set them up to do that automatically.   But yeah, I've been using Python3 all along on all my other computers.

Posted by: @byron

Also remember numpy did not work for me when I first installed it.

I think I have numpy installed now.  I actually achieved that by installing matplotlib as per Paul McWhorter's instructions and that brings numpy in with it.  I can now import them both from the Python3 command prompt which I wasn't able to do before.  So I think I'm making progress.

I'm looking into trying to install Code-OSS now. (Or Visual Studio I guess it's also called).

Posted by: @byron

And whats this mamby pamby sawmill, you should be swinging your large axe and running like hell when the tree falls the wrong way.

You silly programmer. 🤣 

You don't cut trees down with a sawmill.   You do that with a chainsaw. 😊 

An no, I'm not chopping through a 30" diameter oak tree to fell it.  Who do you think I am?  Python Bunyan?

In fact this tree I'm making lumber out of right now is a big old oak tree that almost fell on my house during a storm:

She's on the sawmill now being converted into usable lumber!  In fact, this is actually some really NICE Red Oak boards.   Fantastic straight-grained lumber.

Posted by: @robo-pi

Fantastic straight-grained lumber.

Oooo thats really nice.  My main playtime is doing woodworking, and playing with electronics is for my more sedentary moments.  Timber like that would cost and arm and a leg in England once its been sticked to dry out for a few years.   Love your house, it looks as if a bunch of singing dwarfs will emerge at any time,  hi ho.

Posted by: @byron

Oooo thats really nice.  My main playtime is doing woodworking, and playing with electronics is for my more sedentary moments.  Timber like that would cost and arm and a leg in England once its been sticked to dry out for a few years

Yes, it's expensive here in the states too.   I'm really lucky to have this "estate" if I'm allowed to call it that.  I have ten acres here.  It's all wooded and I have prime Red Oak, White Oak, Scarlet Oak, Cherry, Maple, and White Pine trees everywhere.   So I have lumber from all those species that I've cut on my sawmill.   I even have some spruce that I cut for making violins. 🤣  

I actually started getting into making violins at one time (or perhaps fiddles?).   I actually bought a lot of violin making tools and patterns for a few different violin models.   I even cut out the forms for making them.  But that's as far as I got. Unfortunately this is my life story.  I must have a gazillion unfinished projects laying around.  I did build a violin from a kit though. 😊   Don't ask me to play it though unless you are wearing ear protection.

Too bad you don't live close by I could fix you up with some nice lumber.   I've actually been thinking about cutting very small lumber for use in small projects like making things like jewelry boxes and doll houses.  Both of those are things that a lot of people like to build.   And shipping small amounts of lumber like that is reasonable in terms of postage.  Especially after it's been well cured and dried.

I have a Harbor Freight Sawmill:  Only cost about $2000.  Not bad for a whole sawmill huh?

You'll find mixed reviews on this machine.  There are those who absolutely love it, and those who curse it and call it the worst piece of junk ever made.   I'm in the former group.  I LOVE my sawmill. 😍 

I'm also a bit of a machinist, so I set this sawmill up correctly from day one and it has been absolutely perfect ever since.  It's cuts perfectly flat and straight lumber and I just can't imagine any sawmill cutting any better lumber.  I think the people who think it's junk just did a really poor job of assembling it and setting it up.  Mine has been running smooth as silk for about 5 years now.  No complaints here.

And, as you can imagine, with all my forest trees this sawmill has paid for itself many times over already.

The other thing that I find surprising too is that I can barely keep up with the trees that die of normal storm damage.  Like the one that almost fell on my cottage.   Some people said that after I buy this sawmill my forest would soon be nothing but cut off stumps.   Nothing could be further from the truth.  I've had it for five years now and I've been cutting lumber pretty much every summer and you can't even tell.  The forest looks just the same as it did five year ago.   In fact, if anything it would do it well to be thinned out a bit more. 😎 

I can't see myself living long enough to put much of a dent in it.   It's not like I'm shipping out truckloads of lumber wholesale.   In fact, I haven't sold a stick of lumber yet.  I bought it for my own use.  But I do have more lumber on stock that I'm likely to use anytime soon.

That's why I say, if you lived close buy you would have just hit the jackpot. 👍   Depending on what you build and whether you are big on sales, I could probably supply  you with enough lumber for personal projects to keep you busy for quite some time.

Oh, by the way.  This sawmill can cut lumber as thin as 1/4 thick.   In fact, you could probably shave off strips 1/8" thin, but I'm not sure why you'd want anything that think unless you are looking from something you can bend for a veneer.  That's another nice feature of having a saw mill.  If you want bent lumber you can cut it green, and then bend it before it cures.  So you can have nice arches, or anything you want.

Oh well, I better stop going on about lumber.  This is supposed to be an electronics and programming forum. 🤣

Posted by: @byron

Love your house, it looks as if a bunch of singing dwarfs will emerge at any time,  hi ho.

I pretty much built the whole thing myself.   It needs some more work though.   I built all the furniture inside too.  It looks like a Hobbit House inside.

Posted by: @robo-pi

Too bad you don't live close by I could fix you up with some nice lumber.

Well thanks for that nice thought, and I could have given you a brace of Rpi's as a thank-you 😀