make a new video on Raspberry Pi Pico RP2040?

@byron The PICO has a different way of using the ports and if you do not follow the directions it will mess up. Here are links to my posts on another topic for the same issue. Windows mostly.

https://forum.dronebotworkshop.com/raspberry-pi/arduino-ide-2-1-1-will-not-send-the-compiled-file-to-the-pico/#post-41234

and

https://forum.dronebotworkshop.com/raspberry-pi/arduino-ide-2-1-1-will-not-send-the-compiled-file-to-the-pico/#post-41241

and

https://forum.dronebotworkshop.com/raspberry-pi/arduino-ide-2-1-1-will-not-send-the-compiled-file-to-the-pico/#post-41244

Finally here is my post re links to PICO github and docs

https://forum.dronebotworkshop.com/raspberry-pi/arduino-ide-2-1-1-will-not-send-the-compiled-file-to-the-pico/#post-41242

Have fun

@zander

Thanks for all those links.  Sadly my case is a bit different.  I can even have the problem loading a new version of micropython onto the board. (its ok loading new micropython programs files onto an board when the mp UF2 file has loaded the mp environment).  The problem is that when the uf2 file has finished loading it automatically disconnects the drive folder, and the mac complains that the drive has been disconnected without being ejected.  Its usually OK for a few naughty disconnections, but repeatedly doing this eventually means the use of the mouse gets very jerky and the only way I've found to restore the mouse behaviour is a reboot.  

The problem with the Arduino IDE is similar.  I can load a sketch OK, but when I load a new sketch it automatically resets the port, during which the port is lost to the mac.  The mac also gives a message about the drive not being ejected.  The port is no longer found with a ls /dev.  Removing the pico from the usb and re-attaching it will enable the port to be reestablished and a new sketch to be loaded.  But eventually this process, with the 'drive' not being ejected will result in a jerky mouse and a mac reboot is required.

Just because the drive has not been ejected before a disconnection should not really matter unless one does this during a write process and I expect your new mac may not worry about it.   But of interest, when you have loaded a sketch onto your pico and you then load another sketch to replace it without disconnecting the pico in the meanwhile, do you get the Arduino IDE info message that its resetting the port.  Do you then get a message from the mac regarding the drive not being ejected?  

@byron I can't test that right now, all my boards are in transit and arrival time is unknown. I have bookmarked this and will get back to you but it sounds similar to what I have seen.

Hi @inq,

   I think Pico W versus say ESP8266 or ESP32 feels like comparing a tractor with a lorry. They have different markets and aims.

RPi started as an educational project ... of course lots of commercial concerns have built them into their products, and RPi has actually supported them better during the chip drought, as losing those customers would be permanent, whilst new inquiring minds are relatively constant stream of new prospects. But the educational theme is still in the forefront.

Hence, they have made a relatively small number of different products, albeit the basic RPis have been respun with newer silicon etc. several times. However, all of them are pretty well documented and have a huge 'fanbase' of enthusiasts ... the educational market.

Furthermore, it is the whole board or delivered product that is documented, etc., including software to go with it, and some popular peripherals, like cameras.

---------

Is Pico as cheap as the ESPs .. no .. though for US $32.09 with tax & delivery I would expect you to get 4, maybe 5 PICO W boards ? (I didn't see you mention how many you were buying, allowing for a little magic smoke?

It's difficult to compare but UK price (without headers) including 20% VAT and delivery is £34.49 .. so about £7 a board.

The memory comparisons need a bit of careful handling ... sorry I don't have quantitative performance numbers ... but the flash and PSRAM is attached by a narrow (4 or maybe 8-bit) corridor ... the 'internal' RAM of the ESP32-S3 is quoted in https://www.espressif.com/sites/default/files/documentation/esp32-s3_datasheet_en.pdf

as

which is closer to the Pico sizing.

Of course, for some programs, the addition of the somewhat larger, slower memory of the ESPs is great, but don't expect it all to work at the same speed.

-------

In terms of documentation, the ESP32-xx themselselves are relatively well documented .. but strictly this only applies to the actual chip, which is small 6mm square package, usually hiding inside a rectangular metal box. There is some documentation of what is inside some of the metal boxes, but at best I would say it is sketchy. The 16MB of flash and 8MB of PSRAM would be first suspects of a couple of the hidden items, but there are others, including power distribution, etc.,

And whilst you can buy the 'metal box' on a board with castellated solder connections around 3 sides, I suspect you will buy it on 'dev board' of some type.. and whilst a few suppliers (e.g. Adafruit) generally appear to provide a documented product, most of those coming direct via the marketplaces (AliExpress, Amazon, etc.) seem to be a lottery .. most work to some extent, but they can be frustrating. Documentation, even to the level of what name to pick in Arduino board manager, is down to luck.

Whilst, I think they can be great value for hobby purposes, I wouldn't want to have a business that depends upon a regular supply.

---------

Do I think RPi Picos are 'all wonderful' ... NO! So far I only played with one Pico (Not Wireless) ... to give @byron a hand. 

The 3rd party library (Not associated in any way with RPi) I used for the clock chip that I was trying to mate with it, didn't actually support the Pico .. but after digging around for a few hours I found a magic line to make it work.

The Pico has two download modes ... one for code, the other into a filing system. It is supposed to work out which is required automatically .. the best I could make it do, was 'most of the time'. Perhaps that was 'user error' on my part.

On the other side, pretty much everything else was documented, etc., and went easily for someone who hadn't played with that board before.

----------

I suspect the ESP32-S3 will exhibit more processing horsepower, but I think the Pico was aimed at 'slower' peripherals for IoT, etc, (excluding video processing) where ease of connecting and programming is more important than number crunching. RPi 4 and even Pi Zero (2 W) are better at video, Linux, etc.

So, for hobby projects, I think the Espressif stuff is great value. And I suspect it will continue to be good for your personalised community projects.

If I was preparing something to be dished out to a mass of local schools for a curriculum course, or to build into a production based product, I think I would sleep better with RPi, or maybe something from other large concerns like TI or ST. (Not that I shall be testing this suggestion.)

--------

Just a view ... may the best chipset win!

Best wishes, Dave

Posted by: @davee

↑

Is Pico as cheap as the ESPs .. no .. though for US $32.09 with tax & delivery I would expect you to get 4, maybe 5 PICO W boards? I didn't see you mention how many you were buying...

Clue...

... I'm thinking you being in the land of RasPi, you probably get them a little cheaper than us here in the colonies.  This was actually one of the best prices I could find... that could get it here before I forgot that I ordered them.  😆 

Posted by: @davee

↑

 allowing for a little magic smoke?

Well Dave... you know me so well! 😊 

Posted by: @davee

↑

It's difficult to compare but UK price (without headers) including 20% VAT and delivery is £34.49 .. so about £7 a board.

 😳  Wow... I take that back.  Your internal taxes are staggering.

Posted by: @davee

↑

The memory comparisons need a bit of careful handling ... sorry I don't have quantitative performance numbers ... but the flash and PSRAM is attached by a narrow (4 or maybe 8-bit) corridor ...

Of course, for some programs, the addition of the somewhat larger, slower memory of the ESPs is great, but don't expect it all to work at the same speed.

I'm used to that.  On the ESP8266 the flash is accessed via SPI... so I'm not even sure it's 4bit.  I'd assume the 16MB on the ESP32 would be the same as I use it as the "hard disk" holding all the end-user web hosted files... HTML, CSS, JavaScript, BMP, JPG... etc.  The 8MB of PSRAM is alien to me.  Will dig in as needed, but I'll be wanting to deal with CPU ability and WiFi throughput of the two architectures... AND mainly the SSL throughput.  Frankly, I think that will be the deciding factor unless I can make the library compatible with all of them with little to no variability.

Overall, I think you bring up some very important points that describe what light one should judge the differences.  No doubt!... RasPi computers and now MPU's are geared toward education first.  That many cottage industries have popped up using them is understandable.  With their kid-oriented graphics and wording, they've made a fantastic contribution to the world.  Maybe the ESP chip story is more like Sony Beta Max losing to VHS... Marketing!

I just wonder about boards like the UNO, RP2040, The UNO 4 with a built in display.  These are all great for the first-time person.  But after that... do the masses stay with them or move on to more powerful, more featured, cheaper models?

VBR,

Inq

@byron,

With all the troubles you mentioned, got me to realizing... maybe the Arduino IDE is not the way to go.  Do you have some feel (say... you're real active on some RaspPiPico forum)... what is the most common development system (computer, OS, and IDE).  For instance... is development more commonly done on a Raspberry Pi, Linux and some kind of custom IDE???

Posted by: @inq

↑

 😎 hat is the most common development system (computer, OS, and IDE).

For micorpython then the Thonny IDE is the one I use and can be run on Windows, Mac, Linux and Rp4 etc.

But I expect you are doing your development in C or C++.   The best way to develop for the rpi pico is probably to use the Software Development Kit from rpi.  Folks use whatever C editor they like.  Visual Studio Code is an often used choice, which of course runs on Window, Mac , Linux and even Rp4.   A search on youtube will show many vids on on programming with the SDK.  Hear is a link to the SDK.

https://datasheets.raspberrypi.com/pico/raspberry-pi-pico-c-sdk.pdf

But also a lot of folks do use the Arduino IDE.  Don't be put off by my bad experiences on 2013 vintage of an iMac, I don't see many folks complain too much about running the Arduino on windows.   But for hardcore programming of the rpi pico using the SDK is the way to go. (unless you come in from the cold and try a nice warm and friendly bit of micropython programming 😎 )  

Posted by: @byron

↑

A search on youtube will show many vids on on programming with the SDK.  Hear is a link to the SDK.

> https://datasheets.raspberrypi.com/pico/raspberry-pi-pico-c-sdk.pdf

I skimmed through this just a bit... one thing right off the bat was it might be nice to read a manual where English is the person's first language.  Even if it is the Queen's English. 😋 

I'll take a stab at both methods and see which one feels right.

Posted by: @byron

↑

(unless you come in from the cold and try a nice warm and friendly bit of micropython programming )  

Stranger things could happen! 😊 

The high-school kids I've volunteered to mentor doing a robot uses either Java or C++ in the core driving gear, but Python for decision making.  So unless, I want to be the only dinosaur in the room, I might want to come in from the cold. 😉 

@inq That's now the Kings English.

Posted by: @zander

↑

@inq That's now the Kings English.

 🤣  Ooops!  

You know... that is such a wondrously odd thing to us.  I read a little ways back where England will suck back in all the English currency in the entire world JUST to take Queen Elizabeth's face off and put King Charlie mug on!  

Hi @inq,

   Re will suck back in all the English currency in the entire world JUST to take Queen Elizabeth's face off and put King Charlie mug on!

  I don't think so ... UK currency (notes and coins) are continually 'refreshed' as the tatty, worn out or obsolete ones are replaced as they pass through the banking system. My understanding is that all coins and notes retain their value indefinitely, in so far as they can be exchanged for up-to-date equivalents at the Bank of England, and in practice at some of the high street banks. Coins used to be seen as having a life of several decades, though changes to avoid fakes etc. have resulted in prematurely withdrawing certain designs.

So a rolling replacement programme will be occuring, but not a massive changeover.

The nearest to what you describe occured in 1971, when 'shillings and pence' were replaced by 'new pence' .

Before 1971, there were 20 shillings in a pound, and 12 pence in a shilling. Now 100 'new' pence to the pound, which is a lot more sane, albeit only those of us of a certain age would remember the 'new' description.

In reality, the biggest change is to card and phone based payments ... I carry a small amount of cash with me when I go out, but I can't remember the last time I actually bought something with cash!

Best wishes, Dave

And to be pedantic, it is the King's English .... though it is more often described as Oxford English in recent times. 😎 

Posted by: @inq

↑

Posted by: @zander

↑

@inq That's now the Kings English.

 🤣  Ooops!  

 'Off with his head' or at least put him in the Tower.

Posted by: @inq

↑

The high-school kids I've volunteered to mentor doing a robot uses either Java or C++ in the core driving gear, but Python for decision making.  So unless, I want to be the only dinosaur in the room, I might want to come in from the cold.  

A little kindling for your fire to warm you up, I give you a link to a small series of vids on getting going with python.  As the robots brain is likely to be a PC or a rpi, and even if its to be a rpi-pico or esp32 runnung micropython, it would be best to start off with python proper and then move to micropython nuances later.

There are quite a few videos from Corey Schafter but he did a series of 8 or so short introduction to python videos which are very good to get an idea of python for those experienced in other languages like yourself.  Each video is only about 20 minutes long so moving from the Mesozoic Era wont take too long 😀.  Here's a link to the first one, though if you've already got python installed skip the next in the sequence.

A good introduction to python for any of your students wanting a good start in python would be the following link.  The good thing about this article is that its aimed at showing how to program, but it happens to do this using the python language.

https://thepythoncodingbook.com/

That should be enough to at least warm your tootsies. 😀 

Hi @inq.

  RE: For instance... is development more commonly done on a Raspberry Pi, Linux and some kind of custom IDE???

From my couch, I get the impression ....

• Python tends to be used as an interpreter .. so that implies an environment with IDE tendencies, to a greater or lesser extent.

• Compiled languages, e.g. C/C++, seem to be getting mixed into Microsoft's Visual Studio Code 'editor', which has the ability to be customised by importing 'apps'

Unlike MS Office, etc., VS Code, and the apps I have looked at, are free and available Windows and Linux .. probably Apple to, but I haven't checked.

And as MS now owns Github, there is a tie up there.

Personally, I have tried it, but not enough to get comfortable. To me, it has a fairly steep learning curve and I didn't get on with MS's introductory tutorials ... I am sure others will fare better.

---------

Can anyone else offer better suggestions?

Best wishes all, Dave

@inq I doubt they will force money back in, it gets regularly replaced. Even today it is still possible to find a pre Elizabeth bill, and very common in coin going back several monarchs even as far back as Queen Victoria.

@davee, @zander, @byron,

Yes, I'm sure the article was someone hyping the oddity or it was some piece of AI rambling stupid remarks.  

Yes, I didn't assume someone actually went out and fetched them back.  I assumed that it would be replaced as it comes through the banking system.  As a 100£ note came in with her face, it'd get destroy and 100£ note with his face would get sent out into circulation. 

The difference... US$ only do that for notes that are damaged and worn out.  The styles change somewhat over the decades, but it's still when the old is worn out issue.

Then again... maybe you all are saying that yours will only get changed out when they're worn out... and not merely, the King's Prerogative.  🤣