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b
 b
(@b)
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Joined: 3 years ago
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@inq

The frog has many times used 'we' as in his myopic view he thinks he has an omnipotent view that is universally shared.  It is not.

Speaking for myself, and probably most others, we do not have the time or inclination to delve into all the libraries that are presented for our use, and if we do, then one can politely ask for the source code if its not already available and if its declined (for the very good reasons you have stated) then one can simply make a choice to move take the library for what it is.   It may be worth pointing out for a beginner that one does have to be careful in selecting a library to use, is it being maintained, is the source code available etc. especially if thinking of using the library as part of a larger endeavour or long term use etc.  So eyes wide open and all that, but you made the status of your library transparent and very clear.

I saw no confusion in what you were kindly presenting with your weather station examples in that it made use of your InqPortal but the code to make use of your library was being shown and documented for all to see.

In my set up I use mqtt brokers running on rpi's to pass messages from the core program to a display program, but certainly for those starting out the use of a simple and well thought out web server for passing info and based on a 'humble' ESP8266 is a very good idea and will assist mightily in assisting the use of a browser based display in place of the usual beginners serial monitor output.    I'm sure I will also find it useful, and on behalf of the 'we' who appreciate your efforts and insight I thank you very much.

@frogandtoad, looking at your last few posts on this its now time to hop along, before you descend the discourse into another of your hissy fits.

This post was modified 4 months ago by b

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frogandtoad
(@frogandtoad)
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@inq

Posted by: @inq
Posted by: @frogandtoad
 
Is there another library specific to InqWeather where one can see the code?  Otherwise, how do we interpret your answer?

In five years and four forums, you are the ONLY person who has ever had troubles with this concept, so you might take the "we" out of your posts.  You do not speak for the majority of people.  Any program everyone writes (especially any WiFi based) on an ESP8266... is based on libraries.  Espressif is closed-source.  lwIP is mostly open-source, however, Espressif has taken it and modified it with changes they needed to make it work on the hardware.  That is not published.  The Arduino Core rides on top of the Espressif libraries.  WiFi, various web servers, file systems, and other libraries ride on top of the Arduino Core or Espressif libraries directly.  

InqPortal - Is a closed-source web server library written using Espressif libraries.  It does not use the Arduino Core libraries such as ESP8266WiFi.h, ESP8266WebServer.h, LittleFS.h, and EEPROM.h.  It is a web server with integrated, browser based GUI Admin.  InqPortal also provides a WiFi connections manager, file system, file manager, logging sub-system and application API that incorporates web sockets communications.  The app API abstracts away the communications so the library user can simply change Sketch variable in their Sketch code  and they propagate to their client-side, browser-based apps.  Changes made on the client-side app transparently change the Sketch variables.

InqWeather - Is an open-source project that uses InqPortal and other open and closed libraries.

In the amount of time you have spent writing your inflammatory jabs, you could have easily tried InqPortal out and see if it is useful to you... or not.  https://inqonthat.com/inqportal-the-three-line-promise/

 

Only five years eh?  Well then, you got another 20 years to go!

There is no need to be so arrogant.  I only asked valid questions based upon your own published comments about the availability of your library, of which you told me (us/we - publicly published here), two different stories in two different threads.

It's amazing how ones own truth brings out the personalities in people.

InqWeather - Is an open-source project that uses InqPortal and other open and closed libraries.

Oh please, you're just playing word games now... If it wasn't obvious to you, I asked you about the visibility of your code, not anyone else's code.

At the end of the day, you're hiding your code behind a pre-compiled library that no one can see.  No one here even knows what a default constructor is, let alone a pointer to void*... had you browsed long enough here, you might know that.

In the amount of time you have spent writing your inflammatory jabs, you could have easily tried InqPortal out and see if it is useful to you... or not.  https://inqonthat.com/inqportal-the-three-line-promise/

Inflammatory jabs?
You really do have some imagination, don't you?

I have not criticized your code and project at all, and can appreciate just how many hours you have put into it, however, I only asked you valid questions to explain why your code is closed.  If asking such questions is so offensive to you, then you need some help.


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Ron
 Ron
(@zander)
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@frogandtoad I think he is presenting two different pieces of code, one is closed one is open. Does that help clarify?

It is considered poor judgement to traverse a chasm in 2 leaps.


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frogandtoad
(@frogandtoad)
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@zander

Posted by: @zander

@frogandtoad I think he is presenting two different pieces of code, one is closed one is open. Does that help clarify?

Indeed, but I was questioning why he is hiding his, if he wants to give back to the community, and seeks constructive criticism.

Is that an unfair question to ask?
Is such a question an inflammatory jab?

If anyone is being inflammatory...


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frogandtoad
(@frogandtoad)
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Posted by: @byron

@inq

The frog has many times used 'we' as in his myopic view he thinks he has an omnipotent view that is universally shared.  It is not.

Speaking for myself, and probably most others, we do not have the time or inclination to delve into all the libraries that are presented for our use, and if we do, then one can politely ask for the source code if its not already available and if its declined (for the very good reasons you have stated) then one can simply make a choice to move take the library for what it is.   It may be worth pointing out for a beginner that one does have to be careful in selecting a library to use, is it being maintained, is the source code available etc. especially if thinking of using the library as part of a larger endeavour or long term use etc.  So eyes wide open and all that, but you made the status of your library transparent and very clear.

I saw no confusion in what you were kindly presenting with your weather station examples in that it made use of your InqPortal but the code to make use of your library was being shown and documented for all to see.

In my set up I use mqtt brokers running on rpi's to pass messages from the core program to a display program, but certainly for those starting out the use of a simple and well thought out web server for passing info and based on a 'humble' ESP8266 is a very good idea and will assist mightily in assisting the use of a browser based display in place of the usual beginners serial monitor output.    I'm sure I will also find it useful, and on behalf of the 'we' who appreciate your efforts and insight I thank you very much.

@frogandtoad, looking at your last few posts on this its now time to hop along, before you descend the discourse into another of your hissy fits.

Posted by: @byron

@inq

The frog has many times used 'we' as in his myopic view he thinks he has an omnipotent view that is universally shared.  It is not.

Haha... you're such a funny little WABBIT, aren't you?

Posted by: @byron
Speaking for myself, and probably most others, we do not have the time or inclination to delve into all the libraries that are presented for our use, and if we do, then one can politely ask for the source code if its not already available and if its declined (for the very good reasons you have stated) then one can simply make a choice to move take the library for what it is.

For anyone new here... this little WABBIT is the resident trouble maker... only rears his head when he sees some controversy - Check out his prior history here and parting comments:

Posted by: @byron
@frogandtoad, looking at your last few posts on this its now time to hop along, before you descend the discourse into another of your hissy fits.

Go away you silly little boy!


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Ron
 Ron
(@zander)
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@frogandtoad I don't want to go on about this, but if an author wants to close his code for any reason then that is his prerogative. I am sure you know the common reasons and wouldn't disagree that is valid.

example: Someone copies his code, modifies it and through dumb luck gets it adopted by hundreds of users. Then one day a bug shows up. If those users then look for support form the original author, he is having his time wasted, he may not even know the complaint is about a copy of his code. I am sure you know this, it's not an unreasonable decision on his part. BTW, I too was originally confused and concerned but now that I know there are two parts one closed one open, I am no longer confused. I am still a little concerned, but when the day comes that I have an issue with a part of his closed code I will ask him about it and then we will see what happens. My 'feeling' is he will give me better support than Microsoft or the open source community which I have experience with and it is sometimes better, sometimes worse.

I for one will be trying the weather station when I get some sensors in the mail.

It is considered poor judgement to traverse a chasm in 2 leaps.


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frogandtoad
(@frogandtoad)
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@zander

Posted by: @zander

@frogandtoad I don't want to go on about this, but if an author wants to close his code for any reason then that is his prerogative. I am sure you know the common reasons and wouldn't disagree that is valid.

example: Someone copies his code, modifies it and through dumb luck gets it adopted by hundreds of users. Then one day a bug shows up. If those users then look for support form the original author, he is having his time wasted, he may not even know the complaint is about a copy of his code. I am sure you know this, it's not an unreasonable decision on his part. BTW, I too was originally confused and concerned but now that I know there are two parts one closed one open, I am no longer confused. I am still a little concerned, but when the day comes that I have an issue with a part of his closed code I will ask him about it and then we will see what happens. My 'feeling' is he will give me better support than Microsoft or the open source community which I have experience with and it is sometimes better, sometimes worse.

I for one will be trying the weather station when I get some sensors in the mail.

Posted by: @zander
@frogandtoad I don't want to go on about this, but if an author wants to close his code for any reason then that is his prerogative. I am sure you know the common reasons and wouldn't disagree that is valid.

Indeed, it is his prerogative... I never said he shouldn't keep it closed, I simply asked why, when he expected constructive criticism for his library - Is that a valid question or not?

I for one will be trying the weather station when I get some sensors in the mail.

Go for it, no one is stopping you or even opposing you from using his library at all.  Perhaps you will provide the greatest of criticism of using it when you're done, and you can tell me (us?/we?) what you learn't.

Good luck


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Ron
 Ron
(@zander)
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@frogandtoad I took it to be that he wanted feedback on the weather station open code. How could he ask for a critique of closed code? I know I often confuse people because I say what I think they know but they don't. Being too close is a hazard many of us encounter. I know I have done that here and recently. I try not to, but I know I will fail because I am in a hurry. Writing and talking face to face are HUGELY different. Even the language used is different. I once did a paper on that phenomena at IBM dealing with face to face, 3 part memo, phone, and the internal net we had in the late 70's. ALL different 'voices' from one person. An interesting study, but I did not have any strong recommendations, it's human behaviour and difficult to change. However it is sometimes a problem.

It is considered poor judgement to traverse a chasm in 2 leaps.


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frogandtoad
(@frogandtoad)
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Joined: 3 years ago
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@zander

Posted by: @zander

@frogandtoad I took it to be that he wanted feedback on the weather station open code. How could he ask for a critique of closed code?

I thought you said:

Posted by: @zander

@frogandtoad I don't want to go on about this, but if an author wants to close his code for any reason then that is his prerogative. I am sure you know the common reasons and wouldn't disagree that is valid.

...then:

Posted by: @zander

I know I often confuse people because I say what I think they know but they don't. Being too close is a hazard many of us encounter. I know I have done that here and recently. I try not to, but I know I will fail because I am in a hurry. Writing and talking face to face are HUGELY different. Even the language used is different. I once did a paper on that phenomena at IBM dealing with face to face, 3 part memo, phone, and the internal net we had in the late 70's. ALL different 'voices' from one person. An interesting study, but I did not have any strong recommendations, it's human behaviour and difficult to change. However it is sometimes a problem.

I (we, me, you, foo, bar and baz too) all have flaws, no doubt about it!  But, we can all learn from one another without crystal ball assumptions of being inflammatory.

Btw... I have taught for a living before, and anyone who has ever taught before, should know that referring to we, our, rather than I or me is inclusive tutorial focus, and does not imply author ownership, actually quite the opposite.

Have you ever read a book where the author says that I did this, and my way worked, etc...?
No, because when you are aware of your audience, you never refer to yourself in any tutorial material.

That's how I was taught, and I haven't sen any evidence to contradict such a position to take as a tutor... if there is, then I am more that happy to hear about it and understand it, and may even change my approach if it proves to be beneficial.

Peace 🙂


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Inq
 Inq
(@inq)
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Joined: 5 months ago
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Posted by: @zander

How could he ask for a critique of closed code? 

Actually, I am asking for feedback on either or any others I put on here.  I'm not really asking for a critique of the actual code as your comment suggests.  As a retired software developer, I'm too set in my ways to change "how" I code.  😉 

As no library can be all things to all people, I have focused mine on the needs of my students. 

@byron pointed out something that I had not considered.  I need to contemplate on it...

My intent is to provide a solid client-server framework that frees people from having to mess with ANY client-server logistics.  The goal - To make it feel like the browser (any browser) IS the Sketch code.  The tutorial in my signature uses just six lines of code to illustrate that concept.  Now... as Byron mentioned, I may be locking them into an infrastructure that holds them back.  If not in capability... maybe in their software development learning curve.  Neither of those are my intent.

The feedback I would like... are the next features of InqPortal.  I am willing to prioritize to people's projects.  For instance, here are the features and the reasons, I am adding or want to add.  These are mainly based on my Student's needs.  At the moment, this is the order I plan on adding them.

  1. Data Logging - It is incorporated now, but it is not exposed for generalized use.  Any project needing historical data will benefit.  I need to expose it in InqPortal so that I can add its use to this InqWeather example.  Showing min/max Temperature, Humidity and Pressure for the last 24 hours, week, month, year... etc.
  2. ESP32 Support - I've had a lot of interest in this one!
  3. SSL - Security is critical to move outside of home projects.  Unfortunately, it'll kill the performance. 
  4. SSL - My research indicates that browsers can access an Android phone API's for accelerometers and other sensors in the phone... but only if the website uses SSL.  My students want to use their phones as an accelerometer based joy-stick for their robots/drones.  Also - cool for this forum!
  5. Binary data transfer between client/server to improve information transfer for even quicker real-time feel.

Any ideas that this forum might pose because they need it for their creative ideas.

VBR,

Inq

 

 

3 lines of code = InqPortal = Complete IoT, App, Web Server w/ GUI Admin Client, Access Point Manager, Drag & Drop File Manager, OTA, Performance Metrics, Web Socket Comms, Easy App API, All running on ESP8266...
Even usable on ESP-01S - Quickest Start Guide


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frogandtoad
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@zander

Posted by: @frogandtoad

@zander

Posted by: @zander

@frogandtoad I took it to be that he wanted feedback on the weather station open code. How could he ask for a critique of closed code?

I thought you said:

Posted by: @zander

@frogandtoad I don't want to go on about this, but if an author wants to close his code for any reason then that is his prerogative. I am sure you know the common reasons and wouldn't disagree that is valid.

...then:

Posted by: @zander

I know I often confuse people because I say what I think they know but they don't. Being too close is a hazard many of us encounter. I know I have done that here and recently. I try not to, but I know I will fail because I am in a hurry. Writing and talking face to face are HUGELY different. Even the language used is different. I once did a paper on that phenomena at IBM dealing with face to face, 3 part memo, phone, and the internal net we had in the late 70's. ALL different 'voices' from one person. An interesting study, but I did not have any strong recommendations, it's human behaviour and difficult to change. However it is sometimes a problem.

I (we, me, you, foo, bar and baz too) all have flaws, no doubt about it!  But, we can all learn from one another without crystal ball assumptions of being inflammatory.

Btw... I have taught for a living before, and anyone who has ever taught before, should know that referring to we, our, rather than I or me is inclusive tutorial focus, and does not imply author ownership, actually quite the opposite.

Have you ever read a book where the author says that I did this, and my way worked, etc...?
No, because when you are aware of your audience, you never refer to yourself in any tutorial material.

That's how I was taught, and I haven't sen any evidence to contradict such a position to take as a tutor... if there is, then I am more that happy to hear about it and understand it, and may even change my approach if it proves to be beneficial.

Peace 🙂

So, what do you say?
Your silence is deafening!


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Inq
 Inq
(@inq)
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Joined: 5 months ago
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Topic starter  

Serial Monitor Baud Rate 

One of our forum members ran into troubles because I was using a non-standard baud rate as the default for the Serial Monitor output.  It WAS by default set to 74880.  As of this morning, I have updated library 5.3.1 to the more commonly used 115200.  If you already have it installed, please check your Arduino IDE Library Manager for the new InqPortal update for 5.3.1.  Apologies for the inconvenience.

All references in the on-line manual and tutorials have been updated to reflect the new 115200 baud rate.  Unfortunately, the post above is now in error and I can't correct it.  This particular forum does not allow me to update my posts after a certain amount of time - https://forum.dronebotworkshop.com/postid/27983/

For the Inquisitive - Why 74880

There was a technical discussion on another forum that because the ESP8266 standard crystal was 26MHz, the "proper" baud rate should be set to 74880.  However, that was proving to be too esoteric.  For those of us that remember the Sony Beta Max... It was a superior standard to the VHS video tape, but it never took off because it was not what people were used to.  😉 

3 lines of code = InqPortal = Complete IoT, App, Web Server w/ GUI Admin Client, Access Point Manager, Drag & Drop File Manager, OTA, Performance Metrics, Web Socket Comms, Easy App API, All running on ESP8266...
Even usable on ESP-01S - Quickest Start Guide


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Inq
 Inq
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Posted by: @byron

In my set up I use mqtt brokers running on rpi's to pass messages from the core program to a display program, but certainly for those starting out the use of a simple and well thought out web server for passing info and based on a 'humble' ESP8266 is a very good idea and will assist mightily in assisting the use of a browser based display in place of the usual beginners serial monitor output.    I'm sure I will also find it useful, and on behalf of the 'we' who appreciate your efforts and insight I thank you very much.

I am interested in learning more about MQTT.  Every time I sit down to do the research, I start with the Wikipedia type "what is MQTT" and then graduate to how?  There I get (About 7,310,000 results (0.43 seconds) hits.  Can you recommend a good tutorial that might illustrate the broad-strokes in the context we like to do here at dronebotworkshop?  Something that I might be able to put together in a day?  Something that uses two ESP8266's or one and a RaspPi?  I don't have any problem doing the whole RaspPi Nginx, Apache, OpenSQL thing if absolutely necessary; but, I'm pretty good at extrapolating to my needs.  Thanks.

VBR,

Inq

3 lines of code = InqPortal = Complete IoT, App, Web Server w/ GUI Admin Client, Access Point Manager, Drag & Drop File Manager, OTA, Performance Metrics, Web Socket Comms, Easy App API, All running on ESP8266...
Even usable on ESP-01S - Quickest Start Guide


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codecage
(@codecage)
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Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 1156
 

@inq 

I had the same issue when I was first attempting to use MQTT, and don't remember exactly how I finally got around the learning hurdle, but the worst thing is I think I have lost everything I learned.

There is someone here on the forum that pointed me in the right direction, but like everything else, I'm drawing a blank on who that was.

Seems to happen quite often with my 76 year old mind.  Then every once in a while a light comes on and there is the info I was searching for!  Keep your fingers crossed!! 😎 

SteveG


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Inq
 Inq
(@inq)
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@codecage - I cringed when I saw your avatar.  Now, knowing you're a moderator and seeing that finger...  I just know I'm in trouble again.  I guess flash-backs to growing up in a public school system where corporal punishment was the rule of the day... didn't help.  🤣 

3 lines of code = InqPortal = Complete IoT, App, Web Server w/ GUI Admin Client, Access Point Manager, Drag & Drop File Manager, OTA, Performance Metrics, Web Socket Comms, Easy App API, All running on ESP8266...
Even usable on ESP-01S - Quickest Start Guide


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