Documentation of projects or questions

Posted by: @ronalex4203

@will Then we have a major disagreement on what a schematic is and what a wiring diagram is.

I'm going by Foxy's descriptions (except for the location on the panel). To me the schematic's the picture of a bunch of lines and squiggles and Egyptian hieroglyphics and the wiring diagram is the Fritzing picture which shows all the components and where BOTH ENDS of the wire go 🙂

@will I have no idea what Fritzing is. Are you saying the difference is showing a resistor as a squigly line is schematic and as an actual picture of one is a wiring diagram? I freely admit I might/am confused. Not so sure about the rest of y'all.

@ronalex4203 

Fritzing diagrams are what Bill uses. It's a realistic picture of the device with all of the pins in their real positions.

This (to me, at least) is a schematic ...

@will I don't see any substantial difference. Given that diagram, I could wire it up and it would look almost identical except the common points on that diagram all terminate at a terminal strip of some sort in real world.

In any case, can we agree if all they have is a 'wiring diagram' that's what we want to see and the actual wiring. If they have a schematic then we need to see both to make sure it was wired correctly plus the actual device(s).

@ronalex4203 

You don't see any difference because you have years experience and recognize all of the device symbols, but imagine if it were your first electronics project and you weren't familiar with any of the conventional symbols for devices, wires or networks. 

You'd be stumped by a schematic, but the Fritzing diagram would make all of the parts recognizable (even if you didn't know their proper names) and the wiring would be straightforward.

I think that's why Bill uses them, to make this stuff as accessible as possible to those people new to the world of electronics. It may seem awkward and clunky to those who are "old hands", but it works for all.

@will I understand what you are saying, and do not disagree, but I can tell you that I struggle to implement his diagrams. I have no difficulty with a schematic.

However, I am on the spectrum as they now say so maybe my brain being wired slightly different makes some things easier for me than the 'normal' person, and some things harder for me than the 'normal' person.

@ronalex4203 

Speaking of "normal", have you noticed that we're all alone off this thread now ? Either nobody else has an opinion, or between us we've completely covered the alternatives or nobody can get a keystroke in edgewise 🙂

Ima see if anybody else makes a contribution.

Seems I excited a bit of interest here.

Will:  I'm from an old generation before the invention of OOP. Perhaps there is something to it for industrial processes or perhaps not but I still think you have to do something to get your thoughts to-gether.  As for wiring diagrams vs schematics, I always make a schematic whether or not there is a wiring diagram 

ronalex4203:  #1 - as above -- #2 - I would like to see some examples of the new fangled stuff applied to a process such as a speed regulator.

RCC1:  Thanks for the backup re schematics.  I often don't pay much attention to a photo of a birds nest on a proto board.

Posted by: @foxy

Seems I excited a bit of interest here.

It's good to get a perspective of what people like, so I'm happy to see shared opinions here. 

Will:  I'm from an old generation before the invention of OOP.

Me too, waaaay before. Ever seen a Honeywell computer ? It used a 36 bit word which was split into four 9-bit bytes by default in time-sharing mode and six 6-bit bytes by default in batch mode. Madness !

Perhaps there is something to it for industrial processes or perhaps not but I still think you have to do something to get your thoughts to-gether.

i find that with OOP, all the little decision trees branched out into class methods so I'd just sit there after writing the class outline and fill in the method definitions the way I used to decide what to do for each conditional branch.

  As for wiring diagrams vs schematics, I always make a schematic whether or not there is a wiring diagram 

I'll only do a schematic now as preparation for making a PCB.

Just to give the pot another stir, but only in the friendliest manner, and maybe from the East side of the Atlantic only.

I don't think the terms 'wiring diagram' and 'schematic' have absolute meanings but more a tendancy of usage

I would say a

schematic implies:

• is a 'scheme' of your circuit ... at most, it only gives obscure clues as to what it physically looks like
• a synonym of 'circuit diagram'
• will often refer to circuit on a single physical item such as a PCB or inside a chip.
• often hierarchical on more complex circuits, but the levels of hierarchy may completely disappear when the whole schematic is used to design a PCB or chip ... often the hierarchical blocks do not represent physical boundaries

wiring diagram implies:

• A diagram of 'wiring' physical blocks together .. usually using wires or equivalent conductors
• it may include details like wire colour and thickness, physical routing and so on needed to construct the product
• it may superficially look like a schematic ..before the days of Fritzing and co, it would always have been drawn in the same manner and style as the schematic, and for most people, would still be drawn that way now
• a top level schematic showing only blocks might be look like a wiring diagram .. at this point they become almost interchangeable terms

Maybe referring to the Fritzing diagrams as the archetypal wiring diagram is a cause of confusion ... they clearly are a form of wiring diagram which can convey useful information in a clear manner for the specific case of plug-in breadboards and so on, and deserve regonition. However, I imagine 'classic' wiring diagrams would have been familiar to likes of Westinghouse, Tesla, Ferranti and so on.

Best wishes and take care all.

@davee Indeed, I think all of you are correct in your assumptions of the differences between a wiring, fritzing, and a schematic diagram. After being exposed to schematics, loop sheets, process & piping diagrams, electrical line diagrams, elevation and detail drawing of various types in the industrial sector for over 40 years..yes, it can be very confusing to a novice. I do think, however, that the fritzing is a very practical way for the novice, as well as the experienced, to make short work of getting started on a project.

I'm of the opinion that in time, those that are really interested in the "art of the business", will teach themselves how to interpret those different types of diagrams, and more importantly, the basics of electronics theory and application.  The process is a life long endeavor, as apparently some of you already know..at 75, I'm still learning...lol , but am more enthused now because of the rapid advancement of technology brought to the general public through forums like this.  Looking forward to learning a lot more from those that are seasoned in MPU, and application of all this technology we have at our disposal. 

Oh, and don't worry to much about there not being many who comment on the threads as most people I image are just reading (listening) and learning from all your experiences. Sometimes it's just better to listen than to talk..

Thanks for all you guys contribute.. regards,

@will 

Ever heard of a McBee computer ?  The university where I got an MSc had one in 1959 as I remember it.  A few of us post grads snared a professor who had used it and got a quick talk on programming. I realize now he was describing assembly language programming and I don't think there was much else at the time.

@foxy 

That's a new one on me, had to Google it, but I just started programming in 1968 on an IBM 360 (IIRC).

By then UniWat (University of Waterloo) had released the WATFOR (Fortran) compiler and all my assignments were on punched cards. I can only remember it used to be hard to get access to the card punches during regular hours, so most of my assignments were done after midnight.

@inst-tech Hi Louis,

Thanks for your reply .. I agree with your comments.

To clarify one item of my previous diatribe, re Fritzing diagram.

I approve of Fritzing diagram used appropriately ... to me, it is like a 'specialist tool' that does one job rather well ... it typically shows in an obvious manner, how to construct a small-ish wiring job like an Arduino to a sensor board on a plugin breadboard ... and that is often the requirement of projects, as Bill demonstrates brilliantly in many of his videos.

I suspect as the number of wires, boards, etc. increase with a more complex system, it will be become increasingly unwieldy.

However, the discussion as I understood it was asking questions like 'What is a wiring diagram?'

I think the primary definition should relate to 'wiring diagrams' in the general context. In the past I have worked with wiring diagrams for a range of items including TV & audio equipment, kitchen 'white goods' like washing machines, computer data acquisition and process control, cars, aircraft and so on, all before I ever met a Fritzing diagram. And in many of these examples, the Fritzing diagram would not have been appropriate.

So:

• Is a Fritzing diagram, a wiring diagram? Yes
• Is a wiring diagram, a Fritzing diagram? Only occasionally ... but a great choice for the right task.

.......

Hope this is helpful and not too contentious. Dave

@davee , Yes, I think your comments are indeed helpful, and when looking at it in perspective, those who understand will see it that way..being confused is only a state of mind, howbeit, only a temporary one at best in most cases..lol

regards,  LouisR