Arduino IDE 2

@frogandtoad Version 2.0.1 is out and it has a lot of new features.

@zander

Posted by: @zander

@frogandtoad Version 2.0.1 is out and it has a lot of new features.

Thank you Ron!

I usually check every week, but you beat me to it this time 😉

Will download soon!

Cheers

Hi @frogandtoad and Ron @zander,

   If you haven't already updated, you may find it updates automatically .. mine (under Ubuntu) came up with a "Do you want to update?" style dialog box whilst the IDE was on screen.

Admittely, I haven't used it enough to discover the new features.

Best wishes, Dave

@davee

Posted by: @davee

Hi @frogandtoad and Ron @zander,

   If you haven't already updated, you may find it updates automatically .. mine (under Ubuntu) came up with a "Do you want to update?" style dialog box whilst the IDE was on screen.

Admittely, I haven't used it enough to discover the new features.

Best wishes, Dave

Hi Dave!

Indeed, I do get that message, but I never follow it's instructions / recommendations, as I have a portable version installed, thus; I never know what that new version would do to me 😉

Thanks for the heads up!

Cheers

Hi @frogandtoad,

  Thanks for the reply.

  I confess I didn't know Arduino IDE 2.0 had a portable version ... I have 1.8 in 'portable' version, albeit still on the main drive, and I recall having a quick look for a portable version when it was still in one of the many beta stages, only to discover a few forum messages concluding that it didn't exist at that time. And I certainly didn't see any mention in the 'offical' 2.0 installation instructions, although I didn't explicitly look for them.

If you have any words of experience and wisdom you would like to share, I guess they might be appreciated by others.

For example, being able to install a 'fresh and insulated' IDE could be a way of helping others who end up with a 'broken' install due to library mismatches, and so on, preferably without affecting their existing installation.

Best wishes and take care my friend, Dave

@davee I have 3 questions.

1. Where is this 'portable' download?

2. Why might I want it instead of the normal install?

3. What libraries do not work in IDE 2 but work in IDE 1 as you state (library mismatches)

Hi Ron @zander,

1.  Where is this 'portable' download?

 IDE 2.0 I don't know ... that was my question to @frogandtoad who said "I have a portable version installed"

IDE 1.8 ... https://docs.arduino.cc/software/ide-v1/tutorials/PortableIDE

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   2. Why might I want it instead of the normal install?

The 'classical' reason for a portable install of a 'programme' (which can be anything from a small executable application to a full blown operating system or IDE), is to put it on a removable media like a USB stick  so that it may be used on more than 1 computer.

However, it is also useful for other occasions, such as when you want to try something in a 'fresh' environment, away from historical changes, etc., or which may 'break' your present working environment.

Then, having completed your 'experiment', you have the option of deleting it entirely without affecting your 'main installation' of the same or equivalent programme --- ideally by just deleting a single directory tree or unplugging the removeable media.

Obviously, a 'portable' programme must not change other parts of the operating system, such as system files and directories, or the infamous Windows registry.

In your particular position of helping others, it could be a procedure to tell the other person to follow, that would provide a 'clean',  and hopefully predictable, install that was much less affected by what files, libraries, etc. have already been added or removed.

Not a cure for all problems, but maybe a handy tool to have in the toolbox.

  3. What libraries do not work in IDE 2 but work in IDE 1 as you state (library mismatches)

Sorry, I used 'mismatches' as a lazy shorthand for all the possible mistakes, and problems that people get into, when adding, removing and modifying libraries.

I did not intend it to specifically refer to the mismatch of a library working on IDE 1 but not IDE 2.

I hope that is clearer. Best wishes my friend, Dave

@davee Thanks Dave. I wanted to clarify your 'lazy shorthand' because as you know I do get involved in a few library issues. Also, I had a past with 'portable' and now see it still means the same thing. I hope one of us finds it soon, maybe @frogandtoad can give us a pointer.

@davee I checked and do not see an IDE2 portable link anywhere. While the 'portable' arrangement may have a use for advanced debugging, it is much more dangerous for newbies. Quite frankly if I needed to change IDE2 release levels to shoot a bug, it would be just as easy to deinstall the old and reinstall the release in question. Of course to do that I DO need admin rights as the uninstall is a simple delete of the entire Arduino15 folder. TBH, I can't recall a single problem I was involved with that needed that level of involvement. There is at least one case where I have had to change the ESP32 boards level from 2.0.4 to 1.0.6 but IIRC that has now been fixed in Github.

@davee As far as 

In your particular position of helping others, it could be a procedure to tell the other person to follow, that would provide a 'clean',  and hopefully predictable, install that was much less affected by what files, libraries, etc. have already been added or removed.

NO

If anything, I would want them to format the HD and set up a std user then proceed. That way I can be sure the ONLY library folder they are messing with is the personal libraries under the sketchbook folder. Fixing it is dead simple, delete all contents and start over by following this list of instructions (I put the instructions here)

I have seen at least one and possibly two cases where the user downloaded the source code for the CORE. Where in BBB is that documented. The root problem of course is an inability or at least a reluctance to RTFM. It is ALL there including how to install a library in 2022. Here is an example from the latest lib mess up. https://forum.dronebotworkshop.com/postid/35038/ notice the user library has a folder for 'arduino-esp32-master' Here is where it came from https://github.com/espressif/arduino-esp32 and the attached pic shows what it is, namely the Arduino Core source code. That code is installed when the IDE is installed and has a specific directory organization that the github master may not reflect.

If I had a vote I would vote to make stuff like this not readable on github to 'normal' folks, just the dev team.

Hi Ron @zander,

  Thanks for your replies ... as usual we agree on a lot ... but I repectfully disagree on some points.

I try to be helpful and supportive to others in the same spirit as others have been helpful and supportive to me in all aspects of my life.

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I have always found 'programmes' which have a simple, open, whilst contained, structure to be much more straightforward, easier to understand. Systems which hide information may superficially look cleaner and easier to use, but invariably seem to create problems that can be solved in a much more obvious fashion when that information is in plain sight.

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As for 'machines' of all types, physical, as well as more abstract, (like software code operating a processor), sometimes I am happy to just use them without concerning myself about their inner details. But at other times, I like to be able to look inside, without being restricted by someone else's prior decision that I am not worthy.

It is often helpful to put a safeguard system around 'delicate' parts of a hardware or software system, to reduce the chance of accidental deletion or corruption ... but this should be likened to a safety harness, not a blindfold, straitjacket or locked vault. In a closed organisational environment, such as within a company structure, it may be approprate for some people to be assigned a limited access to certain information or capabilities, compared to some of their associates. When the person is outside of such a closed environment, this limitation is no longer viable or desirable.

(To remove any doubt: I am only considering 'everyday' situations that have been designed and are intended for an 'open' environment .. I am not referring to 'secrets' associated with security or other 'sensitive' information.)

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I don't know every detail of the example you mentioned, and maybe I am being naive, but I think a simple recipe of a few steps of installing a new , totally separate IDE installation, with JUST the ESP32 library, WITHOUT touching the existing installation, might have resolved much of the problem, with much less stress on you.

If the IDE had been designed as a 'portable' system, all the installation would need is a 'new' folder path and drive space to hold it.

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You are right to point out that the github sources are not the place to start from, as a beginner. I haven't checked this out properly, but I can see the requirement to put a githib address into the preferences window could give a misleading impression to someone who has never seen git and its offshoots before. In most 'popular open source software', the source and 'ready to run binaries' are a little more separated. So whilst there are accurate, explicit instructions, I can imagine how a beginner could become a little disorientated.

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As I said at the beginning .. I only try to help ... and I respect your opinions ... I offer my opinions as a suggestion to think about ... but no more authoratitive than your own.

Best wishes, hope you are over the Covid bug aftermath, and take care my friend, Dave

@davee I am over Covid as far as I can tell.

Sorry my autistic brain can't understand that much material at one time, but I think I caused the problem by replying with too much.

Let's summarize.

First I am currently 'conditioned' by the recent WiFiManager install fiasco. That was caused by the incorrect library being installed AND possibly installing the CORE libraries yielding a sort of reverse portable install. I was answering you from that perspective and reading back now realize I got my Topics mixed up. My apologies.

Actually I am going to change my mind and agree, what we need is a portable install to remove any chance that the user messed with the system. This leads me to think of the following.

1. Let's keep a current portable IDE setup in the fies section of the forum so this way we know EXACTLY what they are using. Let's go further and make it installable but read only like my Mac is.

2. Who wants to be the goto support person, since there is no Mac version it can't be me.

Hi Ron @zander,

   Thanks for the reply.

       Unfortunately, I don't think there is a 'portable' V2.0x 

                    ... but I am hoping I am wrong and  @frogandtoad will explain all ..

                             ... or maybe it will emerge as V2.0x settles down

  I also think there would have to be (at least) three versions to cover everyone ... Apple, Linux and  Windows  ... I know there are bridges like Wine, and Windows is 'incorporating' Linux, but I am doubtful that they are strong enough ..  again maybe @frogand toad or someone else has a better answer.

I can foresee some other issues in the future, but they can wait until these concerns are dealt with.

Best wishes, Dave

@davee I did read that they do NOT have an Apple version due to Apple security I am guessing and that was ver 1. There might be an unofficial work around but if it's unofficial I won't touch it.

This all comes back to 'regular' users running as admins. If you can't see the system libraries you can't mess with them. I tested on the Mac and the 2 attached pics show the huge difference. My admin id is ronalexander my test user is ronalexanderuser. You can see the differences. NOTE this is the SYSTEM Library folder, the Arduino15 folder is just to the right of the hilighted Library. All those other folders in the 3rd column are other sub-systems, apps, system stuff etc. ALL invisible to the normal user. Installing libraries for ronalexcanderuser is easily done using the Sketch Include library menu item seen in the attached pic#3 if you are getting a new library most often from github but can be anywhere. Otherwise the Tools/Manage Libraries and Sketch/Include Library can be used to 'use' a library that is built in or previously installed. The reason you can install but can't see is something called 'owner access'. It's a Unix permissions thing but Windows also uses the same concept. Apple is BSD unix with a fancy GUI and obviously so is Linux.

NOTE: If you are getting from github, once located using the search function, click the green code button and then click the last line to download a zip file. This is the zip file mentioned in the Sketch/Include library approach. If it downloads with master on the end it will still work or you can rename the master part off. I tested both ways.

Hi Ron @zander,

I am getting the impression you think Apple users with limited Arduino experience would benefit from a modified install procedure, which produced a 'less fragile' environment.

And that the same basic principles would be applicable to Linux and Windows. 

I can see that might be of interest to a number of forum users and probably far beyond.

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If so, for a possible first step:

Starting with Apple, as that is your principal platform, do you think you could describe a (straightforward) installation procedure that would put a new installation onto an Apple machine, without affecting or referencing any part of the first installation, and that would meet your expectations of access protection, etc.?

Thus a user, who already has (say) an Arduino V2.0x installation in working order, could follow your instructions, and achieve two completely independent V2.0x installations, and could choose which one to boot up on each session.

(It follows, that if the first installation was in some way 'broken', the new installation should be completely unaffected and work correctly. Thus, once the second installation has been proven to work correctly, the user could delete the first installation and recover the drive space, without affecting the new installation.)

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Thanks for the extra information, which is also prompting some longer term thoughts for myself.

Presently, with either 1.8 or 2.0, with one exception of 1 library for the 1.8 installation that the package author admitted was 'non standard', the nearest my Arduino IDE has got to github is including the ESP32 address on the preferences page .. after that it has been simple mouse clicks on the Library or Board manager.

I have briefly looked at the source of a few ESP32 files, but that was direct github to text editor ... Arduino IDE was not involved and its directories unaffected.

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I am tempted to look at expanding in the opposite direction to your 'safer' world, as I am interested in some of the underlying code. Of course, I am not expecting you to dig me out of any holes I may be creating for myself, but the information you have provided so far has expanded my view as to how to go about it with a more panache and less recklessness! (And I would probably arrange some form of independent 'standard' installation as backup and reference, even if it had to be on a different machine.)

Good to hear your Covid seems to have moved on, but take it gently for a while. Recovery is clearly not as quick as switching a light bulb off.

Best wishes and thanks my friend, Dave