Documentation of projects or questions

What is the difference between schematics and what you call a connection diagram.

I haven't heard the term 'flow chart' used in almost 50 years since most IT programs were ill served by them and we switched to structure charts and other tools. The important thing is to use the right tool for the job and of course the documentation MUST be done first.

@ronalex4203 

A schematic diagram is made to show what is connected to what and no attempt is made to show component location nor wire routing.  It is made purely for the designer to work out the concept of the design and order material, for a newcomer to understand and figure out how it works and for the mechanical and electrical draftsmen to prepare manufacturing drawings. It is also used for field startup and trouble shooting.

A connection diagram is made to show component locations on a panel and to show what wire goes to what terminal on each device.  It is made mainly for use by the manufacturing people who are not required nor responsible to understand how the equipment works.

In practice, on a project the engineer prepares a bill of material or material list based on the schematic, a mechanical draftsman designs a box or enclosure to put it in and an electrical draftsman draws in the wires (connection diagram) or prepares a running list for the wiring.

I am certainly not advocating that we do all this but the schematic portion is, in my mind a necessity if we wish to discuss anything.

As for flow chart, I'm probably dating myself but I find it very useful as a preliminary to coding.      

Posted by: @foxy

@ronalex4203 

[snipt]

As for flow chart, I'm probably dating myself but I find it very useful as a preliminary to coding.      

Do you still find them useful for object oriented languages ? I used to make heavy use of them but found them unhelpful for objects.

@foxy They are useful for something that is a linear process. Useless for modern event driven systems. I got rid of them at IBM Canada about 1979. From then on it was structured design and then a data driven approach I can't remember the name of.

I vote for going to a minimum of the SCHEMATIC.   To many people are saying they are going to show a schematic, and then just show a picture of a breadboard with how they connected everything together (multiple-colored wires crossing over everywhere).  Troubleshooting with just that crude interconnect drawing can be quite difficult at times.  Lots of times when troubleshooting I have to sit down and create a schematic from those pictures or interconnect drawing just so I can wrap my head around what is being used to do what.   

@foxy is 100% correct.  If a person really wants help, give us some clues.

I will now climb down off my soap box.

@rcc1 

I understand your point, but it seems to me that in most cases the user has fouled up the physical wiring even though the schematic is correct.

@will Yep, 2nd test is to verify that the physical wiring is an accurate representation of the schematic. Test 1 is to skull check the schematic.

@ronalex4203 

But there are a lot of people here who are building somebody else's project and just trying to recreate something they found on YouTube or Instructables. It isn't fair to ask them for a schematic because that's not always available from the source.

A wiring diagram, however is almost always available. 

@will Except here on DBWS, a schematic is always supplied.

@ronalex4203 

Great, so we only help people doing DBWS projects 🙂 🙂 🙂

Hey, wait a minute, Bill supplies a wiring diagram, not a schematic !

@will No, just pointing out the problem with generalities.

Hi All,

  I completely understand and sympathise with your thoughts above, but, with all due respect, I suspect you might as well whistle to wind, as what you are asking is impossible.

Some of those here have long professional backgrounds in software or hardware at the 'nuts and bolts' level, but only a few of those asking questions have the same background, and due to the specialisation of skills in most industries, even fewer have it in both hardware and software, whilst most of the projects span both hardware and software.

I support continuing this discussion, as getting 'I have just put an obscure widget together, but it doesn't work ... how do I fix it?' without even a link to the original design, is commonly the request.

Being able to provide a simple link or paste a  standard reply (after a quick delete of any inappropriate bits) for more detail would be helpful, and perhaps a start, but asking for a detailed schematic, and a fully structured and commented software listing, plus photos of equipment, screen shots and so on, is rarely going to be productive, but is usually what is needed.

I suggest the approach needs to become more creative if it to achieve anything useful. It also needs to put in an empathetic way ... so obviously, I won't be much help. Rather than simply saying xyz is needed, find ways that people who have never worked on an xyz, let alone produced one, can provide the information needed. Of course, this is a much tougher goal, but I fear a necessary one.

Best wishes to all.

@will Then we have a major disagreement on what a schematic is and what a wiring diagram is.

@davee 

I don't see this discussion as resulting in any rules for or change of behaviour, it's just cathartic to bitch about the paucity of useful information from time to time.

Misery love company (especially when it's miserable company 🙂