But if they would they work with the 4 inch tube, albeit the whole of the sensor not quite fitting the curvature of the 4 inch pipe then probably some way of attaching them to the pipe which could be undone to move the sensors to a new position might still be an option? It strikes me that they would be good as cheap limit stop alerts such as low water or tank full, and could be used as emergency backup sensor feedback to compliment the distance sensor.
If this was where you intended to attach them when you showed a picture of your attachment bracket the I misunderstood.
Yes it was my intention to place the sensors (Non Contact Liquid Level Sensor) outside the Measuring Stack and if I should attach them to the Measurement Stack I would flatten one side of the PVC and laminate a piece of something to smooth-out dents and stuff caused by tools use to flatten edge. Following is an image of a piece of 4" PVC I've done some playing with.
Does this help clarify things?
BTW, If I use these on the overflow a similar approach will be followed.
Yes, I'm with you now. Two thoughts, would they still work if the sensor was attached without flattening the pipe (albeit without full contact) or would a simple bracket, one side flat and the other matching the pipe curvature be a better option. Making up such a bracket would be easy for me either in my workshop as I have a hole drill bit for a 100mm pipe or I could 3d print it, but it would be difficult if you don't have the right tools.
Two thoughts, would they still work if the sensor was attached without flattening the pipe (albeit without full contact)
I would be afraid of that, but don't know for sure?
or would a simple bracket, one side flat and the other matching the pipe curvature be a better option. Making up such a bracket would be easy for me either in my workshop as I have a hole drill bit for a 100mm pipe or I could 3d print it, but it would be difficult if you don't have the right tools.
I think it would be a better option but ?????.
Flattening the PVC was tricky, I screwed it to a 2x6 at each end and run it through the table saw. I did not have PVC perfectly parallel to edge of 2x6 and this yielded a not so perfect flat side/edge. So used my 4.5 hand plane to even things out, got it pretty perfect. With that the bracket I proposed earlier would work and not be that hard to make. Just make one and use a pattern router bit to duplicate.
And in final creation of the flattened PVC might have a wider piece of plastic as shown in image and then also fit into groves in the bracket. I feel the effort to create these brackets would be worth the effort as they would be somewhat easy to adjust.
All that said though it seems a lot easier to use one of the ultrasonic distance sensors, especially since waterproof ones are available. If I want redundancy, which is likely, it seems to me to be both simpler and less problematic to have more than one of the same sensor than multiple types of sensors.
Flattening the PVC was tricky, I screwed it to a 2x6 at each end and run it through the table saw. I did not have PVC perfectly parallel to edge of 2x6 and this yielded a not so perfect flat side/edge.
Instead of just a 2x6 on bottom as I did a 90 degree setup would, as above, yield a back stop and assure that PVC was parallel to saw blade and likely provide a perfect flat edge/side. No extra work with a hand plane!
What I was thinking for the pipe clamp is something like:
The yellow outer band being a large jubilee clamp. And the sensor is attached to the flat bit. (glue? maybe with a small hole drilled into the flat bit the same diameter of the sensor) This should enable the sensor to be easily adjusted.
But of course you may not decide to peruse the option of using this sort of sensor. Though if they do work well they could be used together with a completely separate circuit and control mechanism just to check for the extremes like a tank-overfill.
Seeing from the PlatfromIO topic that the ESP32's may be your boards of choice on your project, and in case you are not familiar with them yet, just to mention I do see others mention (not necessarily on this forum) that they cannot be relied on to run 24/7 for months on end. Of course all is not lost as they have an internal watchdog, and of course you could construct you own external watchdog too, to re-boot the esp32, or automatically switch the power off and back on, should you get a freeze up.
Not meaning to put you off these boards, they are becoming my go to microcontroller board along with the rpi Pico, but just something to be aware as you start to use them for critical operations.
At the risk of reawakening the severe griping about my hand-drawn figures ... I decided to see if you could cut off the edge of your 4" pipe and make a 30mm flat side without needing to add anything else on top of it.
Turns out you can. If you make the cut 47mm away from the centre of the pipe, you'll get over 30mm wide flat strip.
Anything seems possible when you don't know what you're talking about.
Non Contact Liquid Level Sensor, getting accurate readings from!
From the looks of that picture, it seems that the sensor is round. I presume it'll have wires coming off it on either the side or the back.
How about just taking a small square block of wood about 1" - 2" larger than the diameter of the sensor, drill a hole just big enough for the sensor to fit inside, and drill or saw an escape hole for the wires.
Just glue the wooden carrier where you want it on the pole, insert the sensor in the hole, carefully extract the wires and glue the wooden cap onto the wooden case to hold it firmly on the flat surface.
Outdoor silicon should do well as glue to stick the case on the pipe and the top on the case and a thin (pre-dried) layer on the inside could be used as a soft top to guarantee that the sensor is pressed firmly agains the pipe. You'd probably want to use some kind of metal clamp to hold it firmly to the pole until the glue dries but that can be removed to leave a metal-free environment.
If you ever want to relocate or recover the sensor, you need only break the back off the wood case to retrieve the device.
Anything seems possible when you don't know what you're talking about.
You're inferring that I meant for you to mount it inside the tank, but that is far from what I meant. All you need is a small mount on top of the lid, which could be a small tube 3" tall, a bracket of some sort etc... to keep it safe.
Why overlook something so simple?
One thing is the lids on both tanks will be used for River Water and City Water Input and vents. No room for anything else.
Another thing I will not be altering the tanks in anyway.
Also important I like to build things in modules that are not wired/hooked together with whatever means is convenient at the time. Possibly I move to another tank system that doesn't have convenient access through top. The Measuring Stack will be far similar to retro fit to new tank. Modularization in both hardware and software are engineering Bedrocks.
Also the Measuring Stack keeps the door open for other types of sensors, for example:
I do completely understand your thoughts as to why not just put it in the lid and @will also strongly advocates for this approach. You are not alone!
Of significant importance for developing the Measuring Stack, if not most important, since the Measuring Stack is a clearly defined module I will develop it in my garage over the winter in a way that it will move to outside tanks this spring with a lot of the coding for entire system completed and tested. As I share this through development you will see why I am "Rock Solid" on keeping it in the system. Really want everyone to see what I am seeing and by sharing the development process you guys will likely be of great help!
Ok, thanks for confirming that this is a non-negotiable requirement... looking forward to seeing how you design your object classes (in either C++ or python).
The sensors don't react well to nearby metal, so a metal clamp won't work.
Plastic straps are available.
If going with the design I suggested I think 2 straps to hold the bracket (top and bottom) and one strap to hold the sensor that is fitted into a recess made to the 'flat plate' of the bracket, if you see what I mean.
If the recess is the same diameter as the sensor, then just a plastic strap should hold it securely in place, thus avoiding the use of glue and making for easy removal and adjustment.
Question of clarification please (see updated image attached).:
How does this work exactly?
If the top right valve is only open when there is pressure, then what is the state of the one leading to the tank?
The one leading to the tank is open when there is a need to fill the tank otherwise it is closed.
Is there enough pressure to have both valves open, so that the hose outlets are satisfied at the same time as the tank is filling?
Yep!
Thanks for the clarification, and indeed I am glad to participate as I like to help wherever I can... I've come in late on this project after a long period off, so sorry if I have missed some points... I have tried to speed read as much as I can to get up to date, but I may have missed some points doing so - I hope you understand and can answer me accordingly 🙂
Seeing from the PlatfromIO topic that the ESP32's may be your boards of choice on your project, and in case you are not familiar with them yet, just to mention I do see others mention (not necessarily on this forum) that they cannot be relied on to run 24/7 for months on end. Of course all is not lost as they have an internal watchdog, and of course you could construct you own external watchdog too, to re-boot the esp32, or automatically switch the power off and back on, should you get a freeze up.
Thx for the heads up on that ESP32 dependability. From what I think you are saying it seems that it not a hardware issue but a firmware issue where a reboot gets things going again. Correct me if I am wrong?
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