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WAMagee
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Posted by: @byron FYI @will

City water may not be so critical as I originally understood, as you may have plenty of unused allowance

My not critical City Water position came out when we were evaluating whether to have the hoses access the Tank or City Water at times when River Water was not available.  posting covers this in some detail. 

Posted by: @byron The fact you have a limit indicates there must be a meter somewhere to show the actual usage, and if its like mine, it may be in a most inconvenient place to read. Nevertheless this meter reading could be read periodically (monthly?) and entered into your control system as a date/reading value to enable an rough average daily usage to be calculated and compared the to total allowance.

My monthly water bill has usage. Meter real difficult to access, they have a wireless setup to read it for themselves.

BTW I've a feeling you will be in great need of a soldering iron and all that paraphernalia as your project progresses, so you may as well bite the bullet now, put your soldering station order in, snip those wires, and enjoy the testing.

Yep!

 

This post was modified 2 months ago by WAMagee

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WAMagee
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Posted by: @will

If you're that new to soldering, then let me suggest that you use male and female headers and IC sockets wherever possible.

I have bumped into discussions about headers and will be looking to use them at every chance. They are particularly beneficial in replacing components without redoing entire PCB. 


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WAMagee
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News on JSN-SR04T Waterproof Ultrasonic Distance Sensor

@byron @will

It arrived and as you can see from pic has ALL necessary paraphernalia.

JSN SR04T Waterproof Ultrasonic Distance Sensor

Initial tests demonstrate fairly well that IT WORKS in the 4" PVC I used for previous tests.   A quick overview of results:

I copied the code Bill used in his video on waterproof sensors and supplemented output of mm with cm and in.

All tests were handheld.

I don't have saved data and accurate comparison charts was/am anxious to share what I know so far since there is so much so favorable.

I used both the 72" 182cm and 48" 122cm 4" PVC. Measurements inside and outside 4" PVC appeared the same. Inside was more consistent I believe because outside picked up misc stuff in studio when I wiggled a bit.  The 4" PVC seemed to kept things more consistent.

All tests were short of actual measurement, 72" 182cm around 1.75" 4.5cm and 19" 48cm around 1" 2.5CM.  For sure a better controlled testing environment will have more meaningful numbers.

No valid measurements under 9" 23cm and this is expected behavior for this sensor.

Thinking I would rather not have to install sensor 9" 23cm above a full tank and so ordered from DFROBOT the A02YYUW and it appears to have all the necessary paraphernalia.

A02YYUW Waterproof Ultrasonic Sensor

 


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byron
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@wamagee

Good to hear the encouraging results especially as I have a JSN-SR04T on order.  In my case I'm just looking to check if the water level is getting low in the tank to ensure the pump get switched off to prevent it pumping air, and that sensor looks good for that task.  


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frogandtoad
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@will

Posted by: @will

@wamagee @byron (frogandtoad and davie appear to have bailed on this topic 🙂

[snip]

Haha, no... personally been very busy and tired lately... I see I now have *8* pages to get through to catch up!  You guys are typing faster than I can read 🙂

Cheers.


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Will
 Will
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Posted by: @frogandtoad

@will

Posted by: @will

@wamagee @byron (frogandtoad and davie appear to have bailed on this topic 🙂

[snip]

Haha, no... personally been very busy and tired lately... I see I now have *8* pages to get through to catch up!  You guys are typing faster than I can read 🙂

Cheers.

Sorry about that, I didn't mean to starve you out of the conversation.


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frogandtoad
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@will

Posted by: @will
Posted by: @byron
Posted by: @will

If one only followed one topic at a time it'd be cool

Yes it only one topic at a time.

I meant if I only FOLLOWED one topic at a time; I don't - I've been on multiple topics several times already and I follow the recent posts closely to see if there's anything interesting or where I think I can help. So, since I'm here anyway and reading everything anyway, having all that in the emails seems wasteful.

As an example, this conversation we're having is hardly germane to the topic, but we're forcing WAMAgee to follow us back and forth as if he's at a tennis match 🙂

Likewise... whenever I log in, I always check the recent posts and try to help in as many topics I feel that I can help in - I am always learning 🙂


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frogandtoad
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@wamagee @will @byron

Posted by: @wamagee
Posted by: @will FYI @byron

I can see that testing is going to take a lot longer than I expected 🙂

If the part cost less than $5-$10 I'd say just cut the end off and solder the wires to headers on a PCB, but since the cost is higher, I think I'd trade it in for something else (especially if highly recommended).

Testing is going to take a serious commitment with serious time. With that thought I will need to treat my time very judiciously. Stay out of the "Bunny Holes" and I should only pursue Lidar if a waterproof option does not work.

Then I will need to ask is Lidar better than the HC-SR04?

Maybe, just maybe, in accuracy but not at all sure. 

I do feel that the Lidar Sensors are more waterproof that the HC-SR04 but that analysis can wait until there is a need.

Personally, I think the water proof version of the "HC-SR04" that Bill tested is more than sufficient, and I would just point it directly at the water surface... I'm not sure why the notion of running it through a 4" pipe is so important, when I think it probably even impedes its efficiency/functionality.  I've heard of many stories in the past where people have had great success using it this way, and if you find you need more accuracy or redundancy, just use more than one and average out their measurements... these things are dirt cheap and quite accurate, so you can't go wrong 🙂

Cheers.


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Will
 Will
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Posted by: @frogandtoad

@wamagee @will @byron

Personally, I think the water proof version of the "HC-SR04" that Bill tested is more than sufficient, and I would just point it directly at the water surface... I'm not sure why the notion of running it through a 4" pipe is so important, when I think it probably even impedes its efficiency/functionality

The point of the 4" pipe is that it can be joined to the pipe connecting to the overflow so that the instrumentation need not be placed inside the tank at all.


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frogandtoad
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@wamagee, @will, @byron

Posted by: @wamagee

Overview of Water Flow V006 (One less zero just for @byron)

Water Flow with Separate Drip Zones Pump V0006

 [snip]

Question of clarification please (see updated image attached).:

3335 Water Flow with Separate Drip Zones Pump V0006

How does this work exactly?

If the top right valve is only open when there is pressure, then what is the state of the one leading to the tank?

Is there enough pressure to have both valves open, so that the hose outlets are satisfied at the same time as the tank is filling?

Otherwise, if there is no pressure, then what is the tank valve doing, because pressure must be available to fill the tank, but pressure means that the hose valve is also open?

Cheers.


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frogandtoad
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@wamagee @will @byron

Posted by: @will
Posted by: @frogandtoad

@wamagee @will @byron

Personally, I think the water proof version of the "HC-SR04" that Bill tested is more than sufficient, and I would just point it directly at the water surface... I'm not sure why the notion of running it through a 4" pipe is so important, when I think it probably even impedes its efficiency/functionality

The point of the 4" pipe is that it can be joined to the pipe connecting to the overflow so that the instrumentation need not be placed inside the tank at all.

You're inferring that I meant for you to mount it inside the tank, but that is far from what I meant.  All you need is a small mount on top of the lid, which could be a small tube 3" tall, a bracket of some sort etc... to keep it safe.

Why overlook something so simple?

Cheers.


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WAMagee
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Super glad you are still into this project. 
 
Posted by: @frogandtoad
FYI: @will @bryon

Question of clarification please (see updated image attached).:

3335 Water Flow with Separate Drip Zones Pump V0006

How does this work exactly?

If the top right valve is only open when there is pressure, then what is the state of the one leading to the tank?

The one leading to the tank is open when there is a need to fill the tank otherwise it is closed.

 

Is there enough pressure to have both valves open, so that the hose outlets are satisfied at the same time as the tank is filling?

Yep!

 


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Will
 Will
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Posted by: @frogandtoad

@wamagee @will @byron

Posted by: @will

The point of the 4" pipe is that it can be joined to the pipe connecting to the overflow so that the instrumentation need not be placed inside the tank at all.

You're inferring that I meant for you to mount it inside the tank, but that is far from what I meant.  All you need is a small mount on top of the lid, which could be a small tube 3" tall, a bracket of some sort etc... to keep it safe.

Why overlook something so simple?

Because in previous discussions, WAMagee wanted to separate the system from the tank completely and proposed putting in a separate standing tube so that the tank wouldn't be affected at all.


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WAMagee
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Why overlook something so simple?
 
Posted by: @frogandtoad FYI: @byron @will

You're inferring that I meant for you to mount it inside the tank, but that is far from what I meant.  All you need is a small mount on top of the lid, which could be a small tube 3" tall, a bracket of some sort etc... to keep it safe.

Why overlook something so simple?

One thing is the lids on both tanks will be used for River Water and City Water Input and vents. No room for anything else.

Another thing I will not be altering the tanks in anyway.

Also important I like to build things in modules that are not wired/hooked together with whatever means is convenient at the time. Possibly I move to another tank system that doesn't have convenient access through top.  The Measuring Stack will be far similar to retro fit to new tank. Modularization in both hardware and software are engineering Bedrocks.

Also the Measuring Stack keeps the door open for other types of sensors, for example:

XKC Y25 PNP Non Contact Liquid Level Sensor

I do completely understand your thoughts as to why not just put it in the lid and @will also strongly advocates for this approach.  You are not alone!

Of significant importance for developing the Measuring Stack, if not most important, since the Measuring Stack is a clearly defined module I will develop it in my garage over the winter in a way that it will move to outside tanks this spring with a lot of the coding for entire system completed and tested. As I share this through development you will see why I am "Rock Solid" on keeping it in the system.  Really want everyone to see what I am seeing and by sharing the development process you guys will likely be of great help!

 

This post was modified 2 months ago by WAMagee

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byron
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@wamagee

Your last post showing a picture of the proximity sensor (or whatever they are called) made be realise I fixated on using them on the actual tank as thats where I would have to mount such a sensor on my tank. 

But if they would they work with the 4 inch tube, albeit the whole of the sensor not quite fitting the curvature of the 4 inch pipe then probably some way of attaching them to the pipe which could be undone to move the sensors to a new position might still be an option?   It strikes me that they would be good as cheap limit stop alerts such as low water or tank full, and could be used as emergency backup sensor feedback to compliment the distance sensor.  

If this was where you intended to attach them when you showed a picture of your attachment bracket then I misunderstood.  

This post was modified 2 months ago by byron

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