Hi from Melbourne, Australia

Posted by: @mark-bolton

@inq I grew to love the PDP - 11 . It is like flying a Tiger Moth.

I like your metaphor rich writing style... though never seen one in the flesh, a simple stick and cloth plane with few vices.  Priceless.  Easy to Grok... like a PDP-11.  😉 

@inq So you have flown a Tiger Moth ? She is a viper's nest of vices chiefly the bloke in the cockpit. The most educational machine I ever dealt with. She will make you look like an idiot for ever. More so the more you think you have her under control, but she is forgiving enough to not kill you.

@erickendall

Posted by: @erickendall

Hi guys, another Aussie here as well. Emerald in the Dandenong Ranges.

This is all totally new to me. I have an engineering / toolmaking background (about to retire) and know virtually nothing about microprocessors.

My latest project brought me here. I've been getting so tired of pushing barrow loads of firewood up a hill on our property and around to the back door, so I thought I'd build a radio controlled electric skid steer yard cart. It will hold just over a cubic metre of wood, so it's a fairly robust sort of unit.

I've been researching motors and controllers along with all the other bits and pieces that I'll be needing. I can't believe how versatile these Arduinos are. I'd never heard of them 3 days ago!!!

Got a bit of a learning curve ahead of me I'm sure, but I'm finding it a really interesting field.

 

Another Toolmaker here from Danistan, welcome aboard! 😉

@frogandtoad I was flying a Tiger Moth once with Old Mate - a graduated military Test pilot who flew everything from a Tridekeer Focker to an F - 16,  sitting in the front seat. I was trying to impress of course. One wheel beat me and set the Tiger on a thirty degree yaw / pitch that had us heading towards the Jandakot control tower. I managed to get back in front of the airplane and get us back in the general vicinity of the runway and put her down - an utter clown show. You know what Old Mate said on the IC. ? "That was a very good recovery" ice in the Man's arteries.

Not only do I love the Tiger but I love the men who fly her.

Later Steve Jenkins flew back seat with me and did things I would call utterly impossible. He strapped the Tiger on like a set of roller skates. He did a three point landing in a 10 knot cross wind. WHAT!! ??

My original flying Instructor was WWII veteran. One flying lesson he told me "I am going to show you some things the Tiger "can do" but I UTTERLY FORBID you to attempt any of these manouveres. If you do I will find out and you will be ever the worse for it" And then he went on and light her up. FWIW I never dreampt of attempting to repeat these manouveres but it was an unforgettable lesson in History and Aeronautics and Human Kind.

God Rest you Johnny Bird !! Flights of Angels Old Mate !! All my undying love.

Kindest

M

Posted by: @mark-bolton

@inq So you have flown a Tiger Moth ? She is a viper's nest of vices chiefly the bloke in the cockpit. The most educational machine I ever dealt with. She will make you look like an idiot for ever. More so the more you think you have her under control, but she is forgiving enough to not kill you.

Oh gosh no!  It's really cool that you have! 😎 

Posted by: @inq

though never seen one in the flesh

This referred to the Moth... I've only seen them in books, never in person.  I have seen a PDP-11 😆 

I just assumed that since they used it as a trainer, it would be easy to fly.  I guess it falls under the British, "Stiff upper lip... adversity is to be ignored."  I've flown a Kitfox a few times... a very simple and viceless plane flown with two fingers.  You have to be trying very hard to make it misbehave.

@inq So you have flown the Kitfox? That is a lovely airplane. It is also a very useful and practical airplane. (To own a Tiger as a regular bloke would be a nightmare). And lovely to fly. I would build one. I did build an RV - 4 - whole other story but here is me going WAAAAAY off topic.

I think the idea with the Tiger, was to build a military trainer that forced you to learn how to fly properly.  If you didnt your instructor would soon realize you "didn't have it in you", and you would be "washed out" ...

Dont get me wrong, I am not saying the Tiger is twitchy and stupid to fly. And as I said before the Tiger crash outcome would be very difficult to contrive in such a way as to be fatal. She isnt out to kill you.  Once I learned to fly her and to stay within the limits of my ability, I could make it look like I could fly. I could impress pretty girls who wore scarves and fly low over the beaches at sunset. I never got cocky though. Perhaps that is the paramount lesson of all?

Later the military switched to the Chipmonk as a trainer. She was a sweet heart to fly and to aerobat. But she had an interesting spin. My conjecture is that as Aeronautics progressed, aeroplanes got so much easier to fly. WWI was ancient History by the 60s. I never flew P51 but heard said you never wanted to get one slow and crossed up. The Chippy span like a creature possessed. Initially the spin was all just a blur, but after a few goes, you could palpably feel the wings getting unstuck and could predict the spin recovery. The terrors recede. You feel at home.

Kindest M

Posted by: @frogandtoad

@erickendall

Posted by: @erickendall

Hi guys, another Aussie here as well. Emerald in the Dandenong Ranges.

This is all totally new to me. I have an engineering / toolmaking background (about to retire) and know virtually nothing about microprocessors.

~snip~

Got a bit of a learning curve ahead of me I'm sure, but I'm finding it a really interesting field.

 

Another Toolmaker here from Danistan, welcome aboard! 😉

Mate, you chose the perfect time to get involved with microprocessors. I have been blighted by the wretched things all my life. Z80s ..8080s ~groan~ it took all day to write code to get them to run a set of traffic lights. Not so exciting...

Now days they are just a big bundle of (astonishingly inexpensive) bouncy fun. They WiFi - they are amazingly powerful in terms of number crunching.   Pi's , Arduino and ESP 32 will just leap and cavort before you with only the slightest encouragement. The IDEs are just delicious. The Programming is intuitive and human readable.  Strap in for the ride Old Mate... you are in store for some fun !!

Welcome to the 21st C !!

M

Posted by: @mark-bolton

I think the idea with the Tiger, was to build a military trainer that forced you to learn how to fly properly.  If you didnt your instructor would soon realize you "didn't have it in you", and you would be "washed out" ...

Now that makes sense.

In my first profession, I co-op'd while in college at McDonnell in St. Louis.  At the time, they were in hip deep development and production of F-15, F-18 and AV8B.  One quarter, I worked in the flight simulator group for the AV8B.  McDonnell tamed it with advanced computerized flight controls.  I was not a EE and my software experience was merely personal interest at that time. 

Anyway, we got to fly the simulators occasionally and once they simulated a flight control computer failure on me once.  I was on the ground, on my back within a second every time.  Operator said, don't feel bad, the flight manual procedure is punch or kiss your ass goodbye.  I don't think it's stable in any axis.  He also said, the AV8A (British Harrier) was totally manual.  Gave me a deep respect for British pilots.

Apologies @frewie.  I just realized we've hijacked your thread.  You'll find a lot of us (of the older generations) go off on tangents easily. 🤣 

Isnt it interesting?

My mate the RAAF boy sent over to England to become a Test Pilot and I were having a discussion along such lines. Over a beer of course - we ARE Australians ...  This is the man that can 3 point a Tiger Moth in a ten knot cross wind. We were discussing the role of the meat pilot in a modern jet fighter plane.

"No NEVER think !! ... that is the worst mistake you can ever make. This light goes on and next that light goes on and you press this button and the other light stays off. Then you punch out" By that time, possibly three seconds, the fire in your engine bay has destroyed any resemblance your airplane ever had to be even remotely describable as an "airplane" .

Never think - time is not on your side.

@inq Hells Bells I probably hijacked my own thread?

OK Bill I know you are reading this and be reassured our discussion is neither frivolous or unserious. It  is totally germane to Robotics and not even remotely off topic. When it all boils down we have position sensors. Amplifiers and actuators that are all working in an environment involving inertia and Mass.

~sppfff~ Oh that was just me cracking another tinnie... ~giggle~

@inq The PDP - 11 could be just as embarrassing.... but she never crept up on us .. she thought slowly. Something humans find comforting. And a record of everything that was her world and ours was on a Mylar tape. No bloat no ads no horse shit. Nothing we had to deal with that wasn't able to be disected into ones and zeros. It is a universal Euclidian axiom you cant hide mallware amongst one's and zeros ... the Universe demands it. We felt like we had our hands on the last "White Lady" in the field of computer science.

@mark-bolton 

Thanks for the welcome guys. Seems I am in the right place with so much interest in flying. I owned a Bellanca Decathlon 8KCAB many years ago. Foxtrot Tango Alpha. I believe it's up in Queensland somewhere now. Loved that plane, but it kept me broke. Got plans for a Steen Skybolt and picked up an Avia 9 cylinder radial engine from the US a while ago, and found a matching prop that I picked up from a guy in Hungary.

This is the retirement project.